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BenKenobi
25th Dec 2007, 09:57 AM
Hey guys,

For christmas I got another 2g of ram for my computer, already had 2g.

Right now its coming up as 2814mb, and I thought I would be able to at least get 3 gb some. Any suggestions? Anyone else getting around this amount? At least it looks like I shuold be getting 2g of RAM for just games alone, without the OS.

imlittlev
25th Dec 2007, 11:13 AM
hey, i m getting another 2 gb also, i think theres a fix out there that lets you use more, ihavent looked closely (ram is still shipping)

pigworthy
25th Dec 2007, 11:52 AM
I believe 3.2 GB is the most 32bit OS will recognize. I've done a lot of playing around with this. You have to have a 64bit OS to really use it. You can use the /3GB in your boot.ini file. But this can cause your system to become unstable. So be careful.

Dead...Again
25th Dec 2007, 12:00 PM
That seems like a lot of memory space to be used by motherboard resources and PCI devices. Normally you still have 3 - 3.5 GB available.
Go into your Device Manager and click View -> Devices by Type.
This should list all of the memory space used by the system.

th3st1ck
25th Dec 2007, 12:27 PM
I have Windows XP Pro, and 4GB of RAM, it shows up as 3.5, i believe the amount differs depending on your OS

pigworthy
25th Dec 2007, 12:41 PM
Darth would know for sure. But a 32bit OS can only address up to 3.7GB total I believe. And the OS reserves like about 500mb for it's own, unless you use the /3GB switch. Which ussually means it will display 3.2gb useable, or about 3.6 if the /3GB switch is used. But you will not get a 32bit OS to show you 4GB. Unless vista has some new trick.

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3034&p=5

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3044&p=1

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3060&p=3

Here is a good article on the problem.

Ghost_Rain
25th Dec 2007, 12:53 PM
They and hot Fix on Microsoft website that fix the problem with the ram.

random_id
25th Dec 2007, 01:57 PM
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605/en-us
"If a computer has many installed devices, the available memory may be reduced to 3 GB or less. However, the maximum memory available in 32-bit versions of Windows Vista is typically 3.12 GB."

The thing you can try is go to your BIOS and see if there's an option called "memory hole remapping" or something similar to this name, and try to enable this option, sometimes it might help in cases like this.

BenKenobi
25th Dec 2007, 02:14 PM
I haven't installed very many devices... I don't even have a sound card

drunken_chef
25th Dec 2007, 02:31 PM
I haven't installed very many devices... I don't even have a sound card

lol, even if its an onboard sound card it is still a device.

random_id
25th Dec 2007, 02:42 PM
yes, all on-board controllers (USB, firewire, sound, SATA/IDE, etc.) still count as separate devices. Anyway, with such amount of RAM you really should be using a 64-bit OS instead of trying to find hacks/workarounds for 32-bit memory limitations :P It's not really expensive (if you own a 32-bit Vista you can simply order a DVD disk with 64-bit version here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/1033/ordermedia/default.mspx) and most of your 32-bit programs/games will run fine under it with very little (if any at all) performance decrease.

BenKenobi
25th Dec 2007, 02:49 PM
But why aren't I getting 3.xxx gb then?? I have a 680i motherboard

random_id
25th Dec 2007, 03:30 PM
But why aren't I getting 3.xxx gb then?? I have a 680i motherboard
Because you have a 32-bit OS and depending on hardware it will "give" you anywhere from 3.5GB to whatever you're seeing now. Here's another example of same thing you're seeing (solved by installing a 64-bit OS):
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=535694
and another one:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/234556-44-windows-vista-home-premium

BenKenobi
25th Dec 2007, 05:37 PM
I dont want 64 bit lol

aren't there compatibility issues?

random_id
25th Dec 2007, 06:28 PM
Compatibility issues? With what? I don't have any issues :P

Gremlin_flg
26th Dec 2007, 02:53 AM
I am running vista 64 bit and have no issues. to see 4 gigs you need to have 64 bit OS

BenKenobi
26th Dec 2007, 10:30 AM
According to this, your graphics card takes up a lot of this "unused RAM". It is either equal or greater to the amount you have on your graphics card... and since I have 768mb I can see why it is so low, because other things also need to be taken for the bios and pci slots etc.

Oh well,

juneau
26th Dec 2007, 10:45 AM
According to this, your graphics card takes up a lot of this "unused RAM". It is either equal or greater to the amount you have on your graphics card... and since I have 768mb I can see why it is so low, because other things also need to be taken for the bios and pci slots etc.

Oh well,

Bang on the money there. It'll still feel very nippy. :D

Dead...Again
26th Dec 2007, 12:35 PM
I've been running Vista x64 for months and have no compatibility issues. You would be surprised at the number of vendors that have Vista x64 drivers.

As for why you only see part of the memory: 32-bit OSes can only access 4GB of memory space. This memory space is used by motherboard resources and PCI devices in addition to system memory. The chipset/motherboard reserves a good bit of the top 512MB. In addition, most PCI devices use memory-mapped IO. If the BIOS is good, it will stick as much of the resources mapped by PCI into the little bit of the top 512MB not used by the motherboard. Anything else will have to be placed below this.

In addition to this, there may be other limitations specific to the particular OS.

64bit OSes don't have this limitation. The limit when using 64-bit OSes is currently either the CPU or chipset. Most CPUs have 36-bit addressing. This limits the available memory space to 0xF FFFF FFFF or 64GB. As far as I know, no chipset available can address more than 64GB. Most support 16GB or less. (Like you'd even need that much for anything other than a server! :) )

Grisu
26th Dec 2007, 05:37 PM
I use Vista32 with 3 GB of Ram and all is available.

darth_nevus
26th Dec 2007, 06:13 PM
2 fold problem.
first part is has to do with "virtual address space". your pc has 4gb. of that it can address 4gb. but the "virtual address space" is consumed by hardware devices. vista 32 has another bug. its called the 2x video memory req. so this is what your left with:

4gb
-~800-400mb for addresses for devices(This is ANYTHING your mobo can address. from ram to com ports)
-whatever your video card ram is.
=whats left.

good example.

4gb.
~500mb(average lower single card not too spectacular)
768mb GTX card.
=
~2.8gb usuable space.


Thing is the virtual address space for drivers is "reserved" so you won't see it until you start breaking the 3gb barrier.

Vista, to my knowledge has not yet fixed the fact that it pools the address space for the video card about twice. beause of this, in the main address space, there is some of the space being used for the card. but, vista turns around and uses the exact size of the vram and scheduales it as well from the address space. this is why an xp pc will have "more" ram available than vista.

The second problem is the /3gb switch in the boot ini file doesn't do anygood nless the software already knows it can use more than its 2gb private "virtual address" space. you you wind up having to hex exit your stuff to make it work right if it doesn't.

most games (there are a FEW VERY new ones that don't) aren't programmed to use more than 2GB of ram(due to address space from the private pool). so the /3gb switch doesn't help much there either. in the coming years, with vista x64 and true x64 games, will a pc be able to use more than the standard amount of ram.

fact is, its not worth having more than 2gb of ram in a pc, since nothing, short of an optimized set of code and the proper OS, will be able to use it.

Supreme commander is a perfect example of what happens when sloppy coding meets memory limitations. if anyone has played it on vista, at 1900x1600 with the settings maxed, with 2gb of ram or 4gb, you can't pass the 3rd map in most of the campaigns. your pc literaly runs out of address space, and the game doesn't check to make sure its not either.

the BF2 engine is another good example. their inherent memory leak would allow the amount of ram being addressed to exceed the 2gb barrier for "private" space, and then BONK! CTD baby! and all with a variety of errors or lack their of with no apparent cause, simply because the programming never took into account what would happen if they hit their limit.(anyone remeber the "-4096mb. doesn't seem sane" message? rofl)

no one ever thought this would happen. SURPRISE! it did!

WalkinTarget
27th Dec 2007, 08:13 AM
3gb addressable ??? Pfffttt, I'd be HAPPY to see that !!!! With the Asrock board upgraded to 4gb, I can only see 2.3gb available, even tho the BIOS reports it as 4096 RAM.
It doesn't help Windows is reserving 1gb (is this insane or what??) of RAM for the 7950gx2 video card (512mb RAM per card, but Windows keeps the full 1gb to supply both cards) so I am thinking of pulling the 2gb sticks and putting my 1gb sticks in there ... makes more sense to use the 2gb sticks elsewhere.

Dead_And_Gone
27th Dec 2007, 08:54 AM
Yeesh...

XP Pro shows as 3.5gig.
Vista 64 is showing full 4gig.

One Happy dude here. :D

darth_nevus
27th Dec 2007, 09:22 AM
3gb addressable ??? Pfffttt, I'd be HAPPY to see that !!!! With the Asrock board upgraded to 4gb, I can only see 2.3gb available, even tho the BIOS reports it as 4096 RAM.
It doesn't help Windows is reserving 1gb (is this insane or what??) of RAM for the 7950gx2 video card (512mb RAM per card, but Windows keeps the full 1gb to supply both cards) so I am thinking of pulling the 2gb sticks and putting my 1gb sticks in there ... makes more sense to use the 2gb sticks elsewhere.

Case in point. depending on the system resources, will depend on how much is available. you have the additional worry that you addon card doesn't replace the other "devices" addressable on the main board, but adds more to it. so you have 700mb reserved of the address pool.

BenKenobi
27th Dec 2007, 09:46 AM
Yeah, this realy sucks because If I decided to go SLI with my 8800gtx which I designed my system so I would be able to someday, that would be the 2814mb that I have now - another 768mb........... thats almost 2g. rofl.

Dead...Again
27th Dec 2007, 11:15 AM
Vista x64 FTW! :D

darth_nevus
27th Dec 2007, 12:53 PM
Vista x64 FTW! :D

true, you can see more ram, but most games still aren't programmed to use more than the old 32 bit 2gb barrier for "private" address space. new games will though, starting with Allan Wake....