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  1. #1
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    Default CS:GO vs BF1 - Discussion

    I'm trying to decide which server to put up, let's chat, I value your thoughts and opinions.

    BF1

    Pros:
    New game
    Seems to be fun
    Airplanes and Tanks

    Cons:
    EA/Origin
    Restrictive system that prohibits problem players form being kicked or banned
    Cheating is still a problem, apparently
    3-4 times more expensive than a CS:GO server
    Primarily a console game these days

    CS:GO

    Pros:
    Still the king of PC Games, huge player count
    Steam, and Steam friend system helps getting servers started
    Excellent bots to play while waiting for players to join
    Tons of customization possible to maps, scrolling messages, etc.
    Ability to remove problem players
    Can be played at a high framerate with a basic computer, even a laptop
    Excellent Stats system, Sirex can customize
    Rabid community
    Cheap, and most players already own the game

    Cons:
    Old game
    No airplanes or tanks
    Cheaters (but we can kick/ban obvious ones easily)
    Rabid community

    Team Fortress 2
    coming soon....


    Thoughts???

    -- Cain

  2. #2
    Cain's Lair General pigworthy's Avatar
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    My thoughts as an occasional gamer.

    For me I think BF1 would be better to grow the community. I think as an occasional time player it also gives me a better chance to be competitive in the game.

    In CS:GO it just seemed like you had little chance when the game had guys coming in that have played for years. I just started to feel like half the time or better I was just getting owned. And no one likes being owned. So you stop playing.

    Server wise It would suck to not be able to kick. But they wouldn't be able to go anywhere that could... so all servers would have that problem. I did read an article on cheaters and it did say the new system definitely seemed to be catching cheater more easily. I believe it had said that any cheater that they saw was always of low rank in the game, meaning to them that none had gotten to a high rank before being caught.

    Tough decision though. You have my support either way.....
    I'm here to kill friends. Do you want to be my friend?

  3. #3
    Cain's Lair General Life Time Member
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    CS:GO - I'm echoing Pigworthy. I don't have the skill & experience to enjoy this game. However, it's extremely popular with lots of folks, and a good server might attract new CLRs.

    BF1 - I doubt owning a server would be very satisfying. I listened to "Levelcap's" BF4/BF1 server video, and he apparently bounces around between many unknown servers. If that represents a typical player, they don't care about admin tools because they simply flee when the game turns toxic. Tough for us to build quality without tools.

  4. #4
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    Default

    Good points guys. Please keep your thoughts coming....

    Pig, BF1 has the same issues for the casual gamer. In about a week or two, the best players will have such superior weapons, armor and knowledge of the game, folks like me tend to die almost instantly. the advantage for a BF type game is at least I can respawn in a few seconds, only to die again!! lol

  5. #5
    Cain's Lair General Life Time Member goldenfooler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cain View Post
    Good points guys. Please keep your thoughts coming....

    Pig, BF1 has the same issues for the casual gamer. In about a week or two, the best players will have such superior weapons, armor and knowledge of the game, folks like me tend to die almost instantly. the advantage for a BF type game is at least I can respawn in a few seconds, only to die again!! lol
    I think in BF1 while there is a difference in playing experience. There are less cheaters and griefers then in CSGo.
    The better weapons aren't the biggest thing I think in BF games(unless you are in armor). Most people stick to one or 2 weapons and the difference is knowing the maps. Both are hugely about experience in where to go and do what. BF games usually have more choices about where to go if you get bottlenecked.

  6. #6
    Administrator Life Time Member Sirex's Avatar
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    Its not just cheaters, over the time of bf4 most of the complaints where behaviour related, greifers, harrasers, and disruptive players.
    Bf4 we could not handle these and that is generally what the folks that would frequent the server complained about, not just on here.
    The Cain's Lair tag on a server brings with it an expected level of enviroment.
    Even if we get bf4 level control we still would have issue with that side.
    Every game has cheaters and the like, but our server before in csgo was pretty clean of them.
    Infact a lot of folk commented on it because we handled it.
    Even post event thanks to the stats logs.

    Filling when empty was also more difficult and the bf1 menu suggests quick match will be very very prominent.
    Nothing like playing russian roulette with players.
    And from what i seen when i tried it either put me in with a friend or the lowest ping and closest to full server.

    Add in the fact even at this point GSPs have no answers to the servers thing leads suspission about control and location of servers.
    This is not a new rumour either, its been in the wild since may.

    But yeah, new games are always good.
    Bf has like cs an established player base.
    Both have their damn good players.
    Cs you notice more because your close to them.
    Bf you dont, but 1 might change that.
    - auto squad with friends
    - persistant squads
    - no team mixup on change of maps
    To list a few.
    So once you get one really good player in on a team you will soon have their entire friendlist of really good players in controlling the map.
    Good for player count, then bad for the less skilled players who run.

    For me veichles are not a choice point, tbh i only ever got to use as a passenger except once in bf1.
    You still get your i wanna play tank forever folk.

    Csgo you get your good players but once they join and play a little they do relax and not control the server and start having just fun, which is what we do.
    Bf that rarely happened, everyone that joi ed even with 6 players on would be playing "im rambo" style, and not just have fun.
    The ranking system is part of that i reckon...
    I dont want to play it will make my kdr offset...

    Damn we had whole clan groups frequent both bf4 and csgo.
    The csgo clan groups where always fun, because they just enjoyed the fun.
    The bf4 groups just controlled the map and well it took the fun out of the game for me.

    This could mainly be because in bf the team never really communicate to each other.
    Wherw in csgo we had the setup for dead chat and the like.
    That made for an interesting post game.

    With bf games i feel like im playing with 5 people not everyone.
    I may see folks in game but because we cant really interact it sucks that out of it.
    Csgo i felt like i was playing with the others, the entire server not just the team.

    Then there is the on your own thing, often in bf4 id never get into a squad with clrs...
    So id start one, id get folk non clr join.
    They never spoke, they where to interested in playing hide up a hill and snipe or hanging about doing gawd knows what...
    Even if you engaged them or tried to get them to at least help meh...

    The bf games over the years have been feeling more anti social to me...
    Good players where never really an issue in csgo, as said they relaxed and played for fun.
    The ones that where super serious and never chilled and joined the fun never was an issue for long in the game.
    In bf once you get 2 squads of superseri players you can forget the fun abd folks start leaving or just not having fun.

    I never really heard folks in csgo making honest real moaning about people ingame being super good...
    In bf you heard it a lot.

    But the flip sided you can avoid a set of really good players in bf.
    But when your stuck in a corner fighting to get out, its not fun for anyone on that side.
    But the other team dont care they want the win.

    Tbc

    Thats something else, end game was always folk laughing or having a joke... in csgo... even if you lost!
    I never seen that in any bf game aside from 2142 maybe... it was always a dark moment to lose but thats because the players could not chatter and still cant.

    I always ended up leaving at the end of the night feeling really good happy and had fun with csgo, bf4 i always felt overrun if i had been on the losing side all night or there was lots of good clan squads on the other team.

    Its not just about the game, its the players view of the game.
    As said above alot the bf players who joon random are serious every bullet has a name, they raised it from birth and if your not using it to win and try have a little fun moment your a bad player...
    I never really seen that as prominent as i have in bf4 anywhere else.

    Cain's lair for me is about having a fun night, enjoying the game with everyone.
    Csgo fills both those, the serious players dull down and play for fun.
    The entire team have fun chatting and playing.
    The whole server enjoy the fun.

    But dont get me wrong, bf1 is a good game, just not quite what i expect from a multi player.
    Crammed into a single chat channel wih 5 others never to speak to anyone else on the server ever.
    Not knowing what anyone else is doing, and the serious players act like if they dont play 100% the world will end.




    I'm not insane. I'm just overwhelming!

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  7. #7
    Cain's Lair General -Bar's Avatar
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    CSGO is all about competitive matches now. Community servers just don't populate. I'd rather see a 24/7 map on TF2 with instant spawn personally. I'll be playing BF1 regardless. If the lair has something that I have, I'll play it too tho.

  8. #8
    Administrator Life Time Member Sirex's Avatar
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    Maybe more competitive orientated, im sure not all of near 200,000 players be 'pro'.
    Even if more than half those are 'pro', that never stopped them joining in and having a bit of fun before.
    And the other half have to go somewhere.

    Even if you 1/3 the csgo player base as non pro, the number of casuals still over power that of all games on steam that are recorded, except dota2 which is still miles below csgos numbers.

    Not to poo poo tf2 but its numbers still dont even get near csgos 3rd.
    Taking those into account the chances of being able to create a stable playbase on the two of those already established games, the csgo has more chance.

    You also have to take into account past players.
    We still get asked by csgo players if a server will come back.
    Csgo is a recent memory for folks, and they really liked it.
    It was not pulled because of bad players or dropping numbers, but because bf4 came out.
    Tf2 it was having issues keeping alive, nights where killing it and it had a long start up time.
    Csgo did cool down at night, but come mid morning it was up again and going, right to the end.




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  9. #9
    Administrator Life Time Member Apache Warrior's Avatar
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    I would enjoy both, but of course I have been playing both for years.

    The admining is what was important to me when I first started on playing Cain's Lair.

    My son was about nine and I could let him play with out worrying about language, pornographic sprays or hackers. Whatever game you play you will get owned when you first start playing. It takes practice to get into the top 10 on the scoreboard. Even though I have played the BF games for years I was getting owned on BF1. I was just starting to get the hang of it when the beta ended.
    Apache

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    I am all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Lets start with typewriters.
    Frank Lloyd Wright

  10. #10
    Administrator Life Time Member Sirex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache Warrior View Post
    I would enjoy both, but of course I have been playing both for years.
    The admiring is what was important to me when I first started on playing Cain's Lair. My son was about nine and I could let him play with out worrying about language, pornographic sprays or hackers. Whatever game you play you will get owned when you first start playing. It takes practice to get into the top 10 on the scoreboard. Even though I have played the BF games for years I was getting owned on BF1. I was just starting to get the hang of it when the beta ended.
    Apache
    Agreed




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  11. #11
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    This huge for me: "The Cain's Lair tag on a server brings with it an expected level of environment."

    I'm proud of this, and it took me over ten years to earn that and sadly, BF4 wiped much of it out immediately.

    I agree with Sirex, BF4 was only about individuals running all over and seeing how many kills they could get. CS:GO quickly forces players to play for a team goal, and as the dead watch the action they get to know each other, and their team pretty well.

    Regarding the cheaters in CS:GO we were part of the Sourcebans network and had some really good anti-cheat measures on our server. I'll have to research if tools like that are still available. Our CS:GO server had less cheaters than our BF4 server.

    Thoughts??

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pigworthy View Post
    My thoughts as an occasional gamer.

    For me I think BF1 would be better to grow the community. I think as an occasional time player it also gives me a better chance to be competitive in the game.

    In CS:GO it just seemed like you had little chance when the game had guys coming in that have played for years. I just started to feel like half the time or better I was just getting owned. And no one likes being owned. So you stop playing.

    Server wise It would suck to not be able to kick. But they wouldn't be able to go anywhere that could... so all servers would have that problem. I did read an article on cheaters and it did say the new system definitely seemed to be catching cheater more easily. I believe it had said that any cheater that they saw was always of low rank in the game, meaning to them that none had gotten to a high rank before being caught.

    Tough decision though. You have my support either way.....
    Good thoughts pig. Sadly since BF4 EA wants every server to be the same as the next server, so players simply hop from server to server to play maps they like. The BF4 crowd rarely stuck with any server and I cannot remember too many BF4 players that even bothered to join our community, or try to come here and make friends.

    BF2 was the most amazing game, and each incarnation of BF has gotten worse, less social and more homogenized from one server to the next. Sadly in BF4 we would get some horrible people and could do absolutely nothing at all about them.

    I have not made up my mind but we had a lot of fun playing CS:GO and made many new friends - many of whom left to play CS:GO somewhere else.

  13. #13
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qicmee View Post
    CS:GO - I'm echoing Pigworthy. I don't have the skill & experience to enjoy this game. However, it's extremely popular with lots of folks, and a good server might attract new CLRs.

    BF1 - I doubt owning a server would be very satisfying. I listened to "Levelcap's" BF4/BF1 server video, and he apparently bounces around between many unknown servers. If that represents a typical player, they don't care about admin tools because they simply flee when the game turns toxic. Tough for us to build quality without tools.
    You are 100% correct about BF4 players leaving when someone or several players start spoiling the fun. We would have a BF4 server suddenly lose 30-40% of the players, and I would realize it was all caused by some jerk, or a group of jerks. I suspect this will be the same in BF1.

    EA is so focused on the bad admins, or as they are now called "badmins", that they are apparently going to remove the ability for good admins to anything about problem players.

    Stay tuned!!

  14. #14
    Cain's Lair General K PhaNTOM's Avatar
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    I can only go forward from BF4 and CSGO. I always go forward in life which is tricky because sometimes I back into a parking spot and get stuck.

    Anyways, I'm sticking with BF1 however I will crash a lot considering my computer can't seem to run it very well. I'll probably buy it when they put it on sale on Black Friday. I am not in a hurry this time around.

  15. #15
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    "You'll come for the games, but stay for the people - unless you're K Phantom...."


  16. #16
    Cain's Lair General Life Time Member goldenfooler's Avatar
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    while i remember CS:Go as being fun... there were a whole lot more cheats in the system.
    Plus am i the only one who remembers the problem with the DOS attacks on the server by other groups?
    Even towards the end on both games you had to stay around to get the server going.

  17. #17
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenfooler View Post
    while i remember CS:Go as being fun... there were a whole lot more cheats in the system.
    Plus am i the only one who remembers the problem with the DOS attacks on the server by other groups?
    Even towards the end on both games you had to stay around to get the server going.
    I vividly remember the DDOSing, that was targeted at our server by folks I had banned. CS:GO definitely has cheaters, no doubt about that.

  18. #18
    Administrator Life Time Member Apache Warrior's Avatar
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    So does the BF Franchise. Remember cartillery?
    Apache

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    I am all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Lets start with typewriters.
    Frank Lloyd Wright

  19. #19
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache Warrior View Post
    So does the BF Franchise. Remember cartillery?
    Apache
    Exactly!! We'd still be playing BF2 if they would have fixed that!! Or 2142 if they would have fixed the Titans moving....

    How about TF2 guys?? That was fun... and a REALLY easy game for me to set up and run.

  20. #20
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    I'm down for anything. What about Fistfull of Frags?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by arpwatch View Post
    I'm down for anything. What about Fistfull of Frags?
    I'll check it out.... I'm wide open too. I want something fun, and that will allow us to play some games with our old friends, and make some new friends too.


  22. #22
    Cain's Lair General -Bar's Avatar
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    Its not so much being pro, CSGO has been oriented a lot like a console game. People play the auto-matching games and competitive matches to get quicker access to skins. I quit playing recently cause there was no good servers available that didn't have crazy mods running. And when I do play, it is competitive matches, because of skins, I mean I'll play at Cain's regardless of drops, but non-community members don't have the standing loyalty that I do. Plus, when they release a new operation, the operation requires play on games modes and not community servers. I dunno, I'm not saying I won't play, I'm just saying, as someone that has continued to play both of these game since the last servers were up here at Cain's, CSGO has become more competitive match based or game mode based that doesn't run off a server.

    And FYI.... I do miss the CLR tag. Playing on random servers with people you aren't close to is boring.

  23. #23
    Cain's Lair General -Bar's Avatar
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    Oh, and how are the numbers for DoD:S ????

  24. #24
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    Played a little CS:GO tonight, it's still fun

  25. #25
    Administrator Cain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Bar View Post
    Its not so much being pro, CSGO has been oriented a lot like a console game. People play the auto-matching games and competitive matches to get quicker access to skins. I quit playing recently cause there was no good servers available that didn't have crazy mods running. And when I do play, it is competitive matches, because of skins, I mean I'll play at Cain's regardless of drops, but non-community members don't have the standing loyalty that I do. Plus, when they release a new operation, the operation requires play on games modes and not community servers. I dunno, I'm not saying I won't play, I'm just saying, as someone that has continued to play both of these game since the last servers were up here at Cain's, CSGO has become more competitive match based or game mode based that doesn't run off a server.

    And FYI.... I do miss the CLR tag. Playing on random servers with people you aren't close to is boring.
    I really appreciate the feedback and your thoughts. I"m out of touch with what's happening lately.

    Perhaps there is a place for an old skool server that plays fur fun and keeps it simple???

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