Enuff with the terror and paranoia

[mapes]

The train is a half hour west of New Haven when the conductor, having finished her original rounds, reappears. She moves down the aisle, looks, stops between our seats, faces the person taking pictures. ?Sir, in the interest of national security, we do not allow pictures to be taken of or from this train.? He starts, ?I??.? but, without English, his response trails off into silence. The conductor, speaking louder, forcefully: ?Sir, I will confiscate that camera if you don?t put it away.? Again, little response. ?Sir, this is a security matter! We cannot allow pictures.? She turns away abruptly and, as she moves down the aisle, calls over her shoulder, in a very loud voice, ?Put. It. Away!? He packs his camera.

Within a minute after our arrival in New Haven, two armed police officers entered the car, approached my neighbor?s seat. ?Sir, we're removing you from this train.? ?I?.;? ?I??? ?Sir, you have breached security regulations. We must remove you from this train.? ?I?,? ?I?..? ?Sir, we are not going to delay this train because of you. You will get off, or we will remove you physically.? ?I?..?

Read the whole story here

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/w..._diplomacy.php

[Thrashdragon]

If he was or appeared to be of Middle Eastern heritage, I have no problem with this. While the article said he spoke Japanese, it specifically and conspicuously left out his country of origin...whether on purpose or just poor writing. As the rest of the article was well-written, I lean towards it being left out on purpose.

If he was any other nationality, then this was taken too far.

[mapes]

If he was or appeared to be of Middle Eastern heritage, I have no problem with this. While the article said he spoke Japanese, it specifically and conspicuously left out his country of origin...whether on purpose or just poor writing. As the rest of the article was well-written, I lean towards it being left out on purpose.

If he was any other nationality, then this was taken too far.

As far as I know it's not illegal to take pictures from a train as a middle eastern tourist. Yes I have a problem with this no matter the country of origin of the tourist. How about if he was a Kuwaiti would it matter then?

The main point being stated here is the over reaction....there is no National Security in preventing people from taking pictures by train. For that matter there is no INsecurity in letting people take pictures from trains......Hell I'm sure you can get better tactical info via Google earth. This isn't security at all. Thats the problem. It's an intrusion in to peoples lives and it gives us NO security.


Just like I have an issue with the US illegally detaining a Canadian and deporting him to Syria and then torturing him for two years.

[alpha]

If he was or appeared to be of Middle Eastern heritage, I have no problem with this.

your kidding, right

[BenKenobi]

If he was or appeared to be of Middle Eastern heritage, I have no problem with this.

your kidding, right

I agree with him. I mean seriously... maybe some of have shorter memories than others, but if I see someone of arab descent I'm going to be a lil suspicious if they're taking pictures. of a train! *cough* Spain! *cough*

They've blown up trains before.

[Rovey Wade]

I agree with him. I mean seriously... maybe some of have shorter memories than others, but if I see someone of arab descent I'm going to be a lil suspicious if they're taking pictures. of a train! *cough* Spain! *cough*

They've blown up trains before.

This is the unreasonable level of fear mapes is pointing out here. It's ignorant to group all "middle eastern looking" people in with terrorists or to assume they have bad intentions.

[BenKenobi]

No but I have a right to be suspicious. I think it's mainly the picture taking and suspicious behavior.

[Trooper110]

I dunno, personally as long as they're not waving a bomb around they can do as they like as long as they're obeying the laws as far as I'm concerned. I was on a plane about 7 or 8 months ago, passengers beside me were a guy and his wife, looked late 40's to early 50's, he had on his head scarf and was actually in the robes they wear. I talked with him for probably a good 10 minutes, interesting people.

And is everyone forgetting the Unibomber? Should we start banning anyone with a beard and longer hair from taking photographs as well? There's a certain point you cross when you go from cautious to paranoid and then you start heading towards a police state. And let me tell you, you really don't want to live in one of those.

[th3st1ck]

I dunno, personally as long as they're not waving a bomb around they can do as they like as long as they're obeying the laws as far as I'm concerned. I was on a plane about 7 or 8 months ago, passengers beside me were a guy and his wife, looked late 40's to early 50's, he had on his head scarf and was actually in the robes they wear. I talked with him for probably a good 10 minutes, interesting people.

And is everyone forgetting the Unibomber? Should we start banning anyone with a beard and longer hair from taking photographs as well? There's a certain point you cross when you go from cautious to paranoid and then you start heading towards a police state. And let me tell you, you really don't want to live in one of those.

i feel the same way, as long as someone is not an obvious threat, they can do whatever they desire...

[ViTO]

One aspect from the inside looking out...

There are trains that pass thru the New York State Watershed Area which although are some of the most beautiful parts of the state....... you cant take pictures !!

The theory being WATERSHED PROTECTION. You have no idea the millions that were spent on policies, procedures and personal including the aviation units which still patrol whats consider an EXTREMELY HIGH PROFILE TARGET !!

Watershed Protection ?!?! Before 911 the worst offense was fishermen using a "motor" boat !!

Go figure, you really never know what the reasons are for such rules.
I'm sure the train passes through a sensitive area or something.

Just something to think about, or the guy was just an asshole

[Rand{CLR}]

If he was or appeared to be of Middle Eastern heritage, I have no problem with this.

your kidding, right

I agree with him. I mean seriously... maybe some of have shorter memories than others, but if I see someone of arab descent I'm going to be a lil suspicious if they're taking pictures. of a train! *cough* Spain! *cough*

They've blown up trains before.

And some Japanese tried to kill 5,000 of their countrymen with Sarin gas in 1995--in a subway system even. And Tim McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building. Puerto Ricans attempted to assassinate Truman at Blair House across from the White House. Middle Eastern Jews fought a violent uprising against British forces in Palestine during and immediately following World War 2. American, German, and other figures shoot up various schools at random times over the last several decades.

Robert Hanson and the Rosenbergs did far more damage to this country than any terrorist pre 9/11.

Don't come quoting here about short memories, and try to use that to justify fear of a segment of the population just because they look like someone who did something bad sometime. Life isn't this simple, never has been, and never will be.

It's thinking like that quoted above that led to things like the U.S. incarcerating everyone of Japanese heritage on the west coast during World War 2. And it's thinking like that which leads even further down similar paths. There are too many examples in history of this line of thinking to name.

-Rand

[Trooper110]

BenKenobi wrote:
alpha wrote:
Thrashdragon wrote:
If he was or appeared to be of Middle Eastern heritage, I have no problem with this.


your kidding, right


I agree with him. I mean seriously... maybe some of have shorter memories than others, but if I see someone of arab descent I'm going to be a lil suspicious if they're taking pictures. of a train! *cough* Spain! *cough*

They've blown up trains before.


And some Japanese tried to kill 5,000 of their countrymen with Sarin gas in 1995--in a subway system even. And Tim McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building. Puerto Ricans attempted to assassinate Truman at Blair House across from the White House. Middle Eastern Jews fought a violent uprising against British forces in Palestine during and immediately following World War 2. American, German, and other figures shoot up various schools at random times over the last several decades.

Robert Hanson and the Rosenbergs did far more damage to this country than any terrorist pre 9/11.

Don't come quoting here about short memories, and try to use that to justify fear of a segment of the population just because they look like someone who did something bad sometime. Life isn't this simple, never has been, and never will be.

It's thinking like that quoted above that led to things like the U.S. incarcerating everyone of Japanese heritage on the west coast during World War 2. And it's thinking like that which leads even further down similar paths. There are too many examples in history of this line of thinking to name.

-Rand

/applaud

[Minerva]

If he was or appeared to be of Middle Eastern heritage, I have no problem with this.

your kidding, right

I agree with him. I mean seriously... maybe some of have shorter memories than others, but if I see someone of arab descent I'm going to be a lil suspicious if they're taking pictures. of a train! *cough* Spain! *cough*

They've blown up trains before.

And some Japanese tried to kill 5,000 of their countrymen with Sarin gas in 1995--in a subway system even. And Tim McVeigh blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building. Puerto Ricans attempted to assassinate Truman at Blair House across from the White House. Middle Eastern Jews fought a violent uprising against British forces in Palestine during and immediately following World War 2. American, German, and other figures shoot up various schools at random times over the last several decades.

Robert Hanson and the Rosenbergs did far more damage to this country than any terrorist pre 9/11.

Don't come quoting here about short memories, and try to use that to justify fear of a segment of the population just because they look like someone who did something bad sometime. Life isn't this simple, never has been, and never will be.

It's thinking like that quoted above that led to things like the U.S. incarcerating everyone of Japanese heritage on the west coast during World War 2. And it's thinking like that which leads even further down similar paths. There are too many examples in history of this line of thinking to name.

-Rand

[BigTwinky]

Wow...racial profiling.
Horrible...simply horrible.

[Thrashdragon]

No, not all Middle Eastern males are terrorists, but considering their beliefs are behind most of the world's problems these days, and a large number of them want us all dead, I think it prudent to keep an eye on them until such time as that isn't true. Some people obviously think political correctness and the misguided pursuit of fairness and equality are more important than people dying. I'm just not one of them. Life's not fair. We're not all equal.

The incarceration of Japanese during WWII is a different situation and was completely justified IMHO. The way some of them were treated was not, but we were in a full scale war at the time. Sometime you have to break a few eggs and all that. Would it be better if, in order to avoid "offending" anyone, a Japanese citizen had gotten intelligence to their fleet allowing it to crush ours, thus prolonging the war and costing more lives? In that situation we confined a segment of the population because their country had attacked us. A reasonable precaution. Yes, the Japanese had a long history of aggressive behavior, but were smart enough to move their country in a new direction when it was over. That country is now a strong ally. Never happen with the Middle East. They're not that smart, they'll never learn, and they'll never stop the killing. Religious fanatics cannot be reasoned with except with a bullet. Therefore, until and unless they're willing to clean up their own culture, Muslims should be watched.

Racial profiling is used (by all levels of law enforcement, no matter what the law says) because it works. Our failure as a country to have the stones to step up and do what is necessary means one day a nice, mannerly Middle Eastern fellow is going to set off a suitcase nuke in the middle of a major city. But that'll be okay, at least we didn't offend anyone!