Enuff with the terror and paranoia

[PainTrain]

I look middle eastern, you wanna water board me?


edit:

Yes, the Japanese had a long history of aggressive behavior, but were smart enough to move their country in a new direction when it was over. That country is now a strong ally. Never happen with the Middle East. They're not that smart, they'll never learn, and they'll never stop the killing. Religious fanatics cannot be reasoned with except with a bullet. Therefore, until and unless they're willing to clean up their own culture, Muslims should be watched.

Wow. I hope you're not old enough to vote.

[Thrashdragon]

I look middle eastern, you wanna water board me?

Way to jump from "increased surveillance" to "mildly uncomfortable interrogation technique wrongly described as torture".

Wow. I hope you're not old enough to vote.

Why? Because I hold a differing opinion than you? That's kind of the whole point of voting, you know. Although I am old enough to vote (almost twice over), but since both parties of our government are essentially the same, and neither has the gumption to do what needs to be done to truly safeguard the country, I don't bother.

This is going to degenerate from a difference of opinion into a flame war so I'm stepping out of this thread.

[Minerva]

No, not all Middle Eastern males are terrorists, but considering their beliefs are behind most of the world's problems these days, and a large number of them want us all dead, I think it prudent to keep an eye on them until such time as that isn't true. Some people obviously think political correctness and the misguided pursuit of fairness and equality are more important than people dying. I'm just not one of them. Life's not fair. We're not all equal.

The incarceration of Japanese during WWII is a different situation and was completely justified IMHO. The way some of them were treated was not, but we were in a full scale war at the time. Sometime you have to break a few eggs and all that. Would it be better if, in order to avoid "offending" anyone, a Japanese citizen had gotten intelligence to their fleet allowing it to crush ours, thus prolonging the war and costing more lives? In that situation we confined a segment of the population because their country had attacked us. A reasonable precaution. Yes, the Japanese had a long history of aggressive behavior, but were smart enough to move their country in a new direction when it was over. That country is now a strong ally. Never happen with the Middle East. They're not that smart, they'll never learn, and they'll never stop the killing. Religious fanatics cannot be reasoned with except with a bullet. Therefore, until and unless they're willing to clean up their own culture, Muslims should be watched.

Racial profiling is used (by all levels of law enforcement, no matter what the law says) because it works. Our failure as a country to have the stones to step up and do what is necessary means one day a nice, mannerly Middle Eastern fellow is going to set off a suitcase nuke in the middle of a major city. But that'll be okay, at least we didn't offend anyone!

I so disagree with your statements, too bad my English sucks and I am afraid I could offend you by not using the most diplomatic words, and I really don't want to do that.

I find it very disturbing that you are willing to group all members of one religion/racial appearance as having one thought, one dogma, and one hate.

I wonder if I can group you with the caucasian americans that placed people in homosexually sugestive poses and humiliated and tortured them and took pictures.

Ah, and btw, I encourage you to read The Cain's Lair Forum's Guidelines, especially where it states "....do not use profanity or racial/religious/ethnic slurs in the forums..."

[Gremlin_flg]

Thrash, so you are referring to their beliefs?? Come on. Do you know what Muslim religion is?? Terrorists are not muslims. They are just using that as an excuse. They are just freaking brainwashed to do crap.

Racial profiling works?? You have one minded opinion set in your head. Unfortunately that is not good.

Yes I have Muslim friends and again they ain't terrorists.

[Thrashdragon]

Just to clarify an apparent misconception here:

I find it very disturbing that you are willing to group all members of one religion/racial appearance as having one thought, one dogma, and one hate.

That isn't what I said at all. When you're trying to prevent something bad from happening, and all the bad things are being committed by members of the same group, a group that has a history of this sort of behavior for years and years, then it makes sense to keep an eye on that group, even though the majority of that group poses no threat.

I wonder if I can group you with the caucasian americans that placed people in homosexually sugestive poses and humiliated and tortured them and took pictures.

Well, if Caucasian Americans had a long history of that sort of behavior, then I guess you could. But we don't.
*Note- "Deliverance" is a work of fiction.

Gremlin, I am familiar with Islam. I am aware that what terrorists profess to believe is a perversion of the Koran. I am also aware that Islam (or a twisted version of it) is behind almost every bad thing that's happening in the world today (just like Christianity was hundreds of years ago). And yes, racial profiling does work when used in conjunction with other resources.

Okay, now I'm calling it quits in here. It's not like we're going to change each other's minds, after all. To each their own.

[ThisElfRocksHard]

Way to jump from "increased surveillance" to "mildly uncomfortable interrogation technique wrongly described as torture".

It's a Geneva Code violation. And, for being mildly uncomfortable, would that be your opinion as someone who has experienced it? Because Malcolm Wrightson Nance, who has, says it is torture. As does Daniel Levin, who also underwent the process.

[Minerva]

Well, if Caucasian Americans had a long history of that sort of behavior, then I guess you could. But we don't.
*Note- "Deliverance" is a work of fiction.

For that simplified point of view, Caucasians have a long history when it comes to "certain" sorts of behavior; American Indians, Africans, Jews, even the South American Indians that were conquered by the Spaniards!

I don't want to be group together for the sins of some race/religion. When I read your post, I thought about the Muslims or Middle Eastern looking people that could be offended. I don't find it right to generalise.

[PainTrain]

Wow. I hope you're not old enough to vote.

Why? Because I hold a differing opinion than you?

No, it's just the absurdly ignorant comments you type make me thing you're twelve and get your information from a racist parent.

Also: I suggest you try Water boarding before writing it off as "mildly uncomfortable"

(just like Christianity was hundreds of years ago).

Christianity still has to do with a lot of bad things happening today.

[paceman]

Christianity still has to do with a lot of bad things happening today.

Can you give an example?

[mapes]

No, it's just the absurdly ignorant comments you type make me thing you're twelve and get your information from a racist parent.

YO....this type of thing is not acceptable behavior here


We were having a civil discussion here no mud flinging or insults. If you have facts to bring to this discussion and you convey those facts in a civil manner good if not hold it to yourself please.

We as a community have discussed various heated political topics and we have always been able to do so with civility. This is one of the things that I love about this community. Please do not tarnish that.

[mapes]

Christianity still has to do with a lot of bad things happening today.

Can you give an example?

Nah man he dosn't know what hes talking about. Pace since the crusades and the inquisition passed Christianty has been cool

edit:Just to be sure....I'm joking ok...

[xGoblin013x]

I would advise you to stop before we hit WWIII... NEVER EVER classify a single religion as doing something bad. What do you think caused the Holocaust?
What this dicussion is about is exactly why every country in the world hates the US. We try to do something "for the good of mankind" and the means in which we do that bulldozes somebody's "rights."
Ok, I look middle eastern (thanks alot grandpa for bein Native American, and thanks dad for growin the goatee). Me and my father get pulled over every time there is a security check... the whole metal detector stick, full background checks, everything you can imagine short of an anal probe. I know its to catch the bad guys, I know the bad guys are out there, I know to grin and bear it.
and yes, Al Queda/whatever-crazy-terrorist-group is a minority in the muslim religion and we should not profile every muslim, but the same thing happened in the American Civil War. People on both sides of the war looked exactly the same, therefore Lincoln (think him however honorable you believe) suspended Habeus Corpus.
There is no Habeus Corpus in war, this is a war, and like it or not torture is the most productive way of gettin info from a terrorist.
Now, what defines a possible terrorist? Noone can answer that. True, most prominent terrorists are middle eastern, but I look middle eastern and Im not a terrorist. Then, you have non-middle eastern terrorists... that canadian man you mentioned. Mabye hes a terrorist, maybe hes an idiot for making himself look like one. I dont know the situation.


The world is on the verge of WWIII. No two ways about it. You said that you dont want to live in a police state. Unfortunately, that may be the only way to secure our country in coming years. Talking doesnt work with people who want to kill you... Luckily, not everyone wants to kill us. They just hate the US, despite our World policing activities.
And to people who think that America's military solutions are all wrong, I propose this: Pull every US force from every country in the world. We'll check back in 20 years.

[paceman]

Well I don't know that I agree with all your comments, but you make some very interesting points.

I would rather be in an unsecure country than to live in a Police State.
As Benjamin Franklyn Said "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety..."

The US is the most giving country in the world, yet we are routinely demonized. When countries have natural disasters, who is typically the first country there delivering aid? And too often those being helped don't think we are doing nearly enough.

I like your idea of completely pulling the military out of every country in the world. I think it would make a HUGE point of how necassary our role in the world is. My fear is that in 20 years things would have gone so far to hell that it would never get cleaned up, and we would be hated for that as well.

[mapes]

Back to the topic though

The point I was trying to make was why was this guy singled out. It wasn't to illegal to take pictures...so why single out a tourist...like all tourists take pictures not all tourists are terrorists this is called a false positive in the security world. If you want to read a really good essay on the topic by noted security researcher Bruce Schneier then read it here

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...profiling.html

heres a snip of it

* Whenever you design a security system with two ways through -- an easy way and a hard way -- you invite the attacker to take the easy way. Profile for young Arab males, and you'll get terrorists that are old non-Arab females. This paper looks at the security effectiveness of profiling versus random searching.

* If we are going to increase security against terrorism, the young Arab males living in our country are precisely the people we want on our side. Discriminating against them in the name of security is not going to make them more likely to help.

* Despite what many people think, terrorism is not confined to young Arab males. Shoe-bomber Richard Reid was British. Germaine Lindsay, one of the 7/7 London bombers, was Afro-Caribbean. Here are some more examples:

In 1986, a 32-year-old Irish woman, pregnant at the time, was about to board an El Al flight from London to Tel Aviv when El Al security agents discovered an explosive device hidden in the false bottom of her bag. The woman?s boyfriend--the father of her unborn child--had hidden the bomb.

In 1987, a 70-year-old man and a 25-year-old woman--neither of whom were Middle Eastern--posed as father and daughter and brought a bomb aboard a Korean Air flight from Baghdad to Thailand. En route to Bangkok, the bomb exploded, killing all on board.

In 1999, men dressed as businessmen (and one dressed as a Catholic priest) turned out to be terrorist hijackers, who forced an Avianca flight to divert to an airstrip in Colombia, where some passengers were held as hostages for more than a year-and-half.

The 2002 Bali terrorists were Indonesian. The Chechnyan terrorists who downed the Russian planes were women. Timothy McVeigh and the Unibomber were Americans. The Basque terrorists are Basque, and Irish terrorists are Irish. Tha Tamil Tigers are Sri Lankan.

And many Muslims are not Arabs. Even worse, almost everyone who is Arab is not a terrorist -- many people who look Arab are not even Muslims. So not only are there an large number of false negatives -- terrorists who don't meet the profile -- but there an enormous number of false positives: innocents that do meet the profile.

[mapes]

BTW heres a link to the story of the Canadian which to me is extremely scary

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...logy_to_c.html


Check out the pic he really doesn't look like a terrorist.