Gamers and Publishers get angry at Fox News

[Kenshin Himura]

I just watched the clip on Youtube of the news... And I was thoroughly disgusted.

Claiming that this game discriminates against females is just outright ignorant. I'm going to suppose that all those movies and television programs that show explicit sex don't, though. Even though the nature of these scenes are much worse than what you're going to find in any video game, they don't seem to have anything negative to say about them.

I can't believe she had the nerve to say that 'Young boys can not tell the difference between video games and reality.' Not only is that lie, it's an insult. I can guarantee you that any child who has had his parents pay attention to his playing habits and speak to him about video games can tell you the difference between the two. But hey, now we're talking about ourselves here, and we're not particularly fond of doing so.

This was blown so out of proportion that it isn't even funny.

They act as if anyone who touches these games are going to spiral down a whirlpool of insanity and crime. And, being an avid gamer myself for just about my entire life, I'm going to have to disagree with that.

Ignorance is bliss, after all. Mistakes have been made... others will be blamed.

[Dead_And_Gone]

Interesting that she not only bashed the game for discrimination, using
women as objects, etc... But she did it WITHOUT ever playing the
game herself.

She kept referring back to "The Book". Why? Are we whitewashing
everything now with a broad brush?

Shallow, stuck up, opinionated peole with little or no basis for fact are
a disgrace. Especially when they get on a major station to spout their
one sided arguments.
(Oh Wait, isn't that the same as a polititian?)

[BigTwinky]

What I found hugely disrespectful is when Geoff started to question her, she called him "darling".

Something along the lines of "darling, i've read studies that say..."
And thats her argument.

Really sad.

[Tails_Kitsune]

What I found hugely disrespectful is when Geoff started to question her, she called him "darling".

Something along the lines of "darling, i've read studies that say..."
And thats her argument.

Really sad.

+1. "I've read studies..." Well, have you ever taken the opportunity to observe similar conditions, and see if the studies match up?

To base an entire population off of one person is largely incorrect, I know, but by age 13, I was well able to tell the difference between reality and fantasy....and had been gaming for around 8 years by that age.

What really ticked me off were some of the panelists (and I believe Mrs. Cooper, as well) saying "Oh, it's so hard to monitor what your kids play." I'm not a parent, so I can't speak from experience, but I've been the child of wise, caring parents who had enough sense to look at the box, take a look at the rating, screenshots, captions, etc. to decide if the game was "appropriate" for me at that point in my life.

That one lady with the whole, "Oh waaahhh, you have to turn the box over for the rating." Well, if you want to choose between your child's well-being and a simple flick of the wrist...what's it gonna be? Besides, the rating is on the front, too. There are more details on the back, as well as direct screen shots from the game to help parents decide. If you buy a game for your child that clearly states "Sexual Themes" on the back of the cover, then you can't go crying to the government, a news agency, or the game developers when you witness these scenes that were clearly marked on the box.

Help us all. Or, well, actually...just help the politicians and anti-game lunatics. The rest of us are fine.

edit: adding meh prepositions

[Dr_Zoidberg]

I really don't see why it was necessary to go spam up Amazon.com over this though. One of the arguments used by people against video games is that they are not for mature audiences but children. Indeed this was the entire thrust of her argument - that mature people might be fine with its content but young people wouldn't. And how do people prove her wrong? By throwing a childish tantrum.

As well... it would be wise to just listen to them and understand that, hey, there is a point they are making that is valid. Mass Effect DOES contain adult content, albeit considerably more tame than they at first claimed. The subject of adult material in video games needs to be on the public agenda. Why? Because of filth like this. The guy in the video said that due to the content of Mass Effect it "won't be going in my house". Errm... that's entirely his perogitive isn't it?

What I do find unnerving about it is the Americanization of what's acceptable to be in games. Mass Effect caused a stir because there was a single bare buttock and the side of a breast visible, Gears of War went past without a single comment even though you could chainsaw people in a blood-splattered frenzy. It appears as if the powers that be believe sex is considerably more "damaging" to young people than violence, which is a bit... silly IMO.

[Tails_Kitsune]

I really don't see why it was necessary to go spam up Amazon.com over this though. One of the arguments used by people against video games is that they are not for mature audiences but children. Indeed this was the entire thrust of her argument - that mature people might be fine with its content but young people wouldn't. And how do people prove her wrong? By throwing a childish tantrum.

As well... it would be wise to just listen to them and understand that, hey, there is a point they are making that is valid. Mass Effect DOES contain adult content, albeit considerably more tame than they at first claimed. The subject of adult material in video games needs to be on the public agenda. Why? Because of filth like this. The guy in the video said that due to the content of Mass Effect it "won't be going in my house". Errm... that's entirely his perogitive isn't it?

What I do find unnerving about it is the Americanization of what's acceptable to be in games. Mass Effect caused a stir because there was a single bare buttock and the side of a breast visible, Gears of War went past without a single comment even though you could chainsaw people in a blood-splattered frenzy. It appears as if the powers that be believe sex is considerably more "damaging" to young people than violence, which is a bit... silly IMO.

I wholly agree with what you're saying. I won't deny that I believe this game would likely be bad for anyone under the "required" age. The ESRB is a blessing to the gaming world, as parents can easily use it to gauge what their children should and should not be playing.

Extreme violence and sexual themes can be harmful for children and even teens, but what really buttered my biscuits was that the panel (and Mrs. Cooper) acted like there was no warning to the material. Video games and movies are given ratings, and any actively concerned parent can surely take a moments glance to see the "Mature" label along with the list of mature themes present within the game. I understand the fact that, perhaps the parents are playing this game, and the child just happens to sneak the game in the Xbox360 while the parents are away, but that's where the parental controls come in. (though I don't own a 360, so I'm not sure about their effectiveness...)

So, from their standpoint, perhaps these scenes are to be concerned about, but the ratings are in place to make sure anyone under the mature audience doesn't get their hands on these games. In a way, it's a good thing this happened, as perhaps some parents will now be much more aware of ratings and their importance to help guide future purchases.

[MoleRat]

In a way, it's a good thing this happened, as perhaps some parents will now be much more aware of ratings and their importance to help guide future purchases.

Aye, that is a likely upside, but probably not the best way of bringing attention to the matter.

This kind of publicity does nothing anger people, as the many people writing bad review for this womans book shows. It also, obviously, brings bad press to the gamers, by way of them acting childish and writing said reviews, and also game makers themselves. This is the kind of publicity no one benefits from, but for the people collecting the checks when the ratings go up because America loves at train wreck.

The game industry has realized, and more people need to, that the Nintendo and Atari generations grew up, and a lot of them still game. I recall hearing reports that the people that spend the most on games, because they have to the most to spend that do game, are people roughly 20-early 30's. Some of these people (I'm in this group myself) don't want to save the princess every day. Even if many (like me ) still enjoy popping in Mario to save the princess, some of us don't want that to be our only gaming. We want complex stories, we want more graphic and (I use this word loosely) realistic people, fights, weapons, and yes, we even want sex. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean blatant porno sex, I mean two people involved in the story become involved.

For me personally its more of a developing story kind of thing. If the heroes of the story are constantly being threatened left and right, almost constantly in danger, and having to rely on each other for their survival, its not suprising, hell its almost expected, to see them become close in some way. Suddenly they have something else other than themselves to save, something that means more than all these random people they don't know in danger. They have their lover.

The point being these games are going to come out because people, like me, want them. They may even hit the point where they become to offensive to too many and they lose sales because of that, but even then they will just cut back some, and then eventually try and push the limit again.
Now I haven't had the chance to play mass effect specifically, so this is all me talking out of me arse and more generally.

This is why the ESRB exists, and they have those neat lil' ratings on the front of all these games that come out.

What I would like to see is maybe something like this. I'm sure most of you have seen those "Be the boss of your remote control" tv adds?
Well I'd like to see adds like that for game ratings. Something that doesn't point the finger at any particular game, but tries to bring to light the fact that these games are all rated, and its up to you as a parent to read this rating and decide if your kid can play it. If not, don't freaking buy it for him. Maybe even have some console specific adds, since Xbox has soem form of parental control, and I wouldn't be too suprised if PS3 and Wii did as well. I don't own any of them myself, so I don't know what they have or to what extent they have them. (Come to think of it I did see an add with art from the guys over at Penny Arcade about ESRB ratings, but even so I'm not seeing the kind of penetration that I do from the TV ratings commercials.)

Sadly.. there will always be those people that just don't give a rats ass... nothing will stop them from buying whatever their kids point at.

(apologies for length, this is what happens when I have something in the back of my head for a while, and then decide to go ahead and post my thoughts.. at four thirty in the morning.)

[PainTrain]

Good lord fox news....

I'd type my feeling but I don't want to harm anyones eyes with my anger :O

[Premonition]

Author Faults a Game, and Gamers Flame Back

The Internet hath no fury like a gamer scorned.


The author Cooper Lawrence, who criticized Mass Effect on a Fox News program.

That?s the lesson Fox News and a self-help author learned this week after a program on that channel featured a discussion of the sexual content of the hit video game Mass Effect.

Bound by global message boards, blogs, chat rooms and of course the games themselves, gamers are perhaps the single most intense subculture on the Internet ? fiercely protective of their pastime and at ease with the byways of cyberspace.

So the game world has been ablaze with indignation since the Fox News program ?The Live Desk With Martha MacCallum? said on Monday that Mass Effect, one of the most critically praised games of 2007, contains frontal nudity and explicit depictions of sexual activity. The assertions of virtual lasciviousness first appeared earlier this month among conservative bloggers incensed by brief YouTube clips excerpted from the 30- to 40-hour game.

Mass Effect, a science fiction game, includes a complicated romantic subplot that is no more risqu? in its plot or graphic in its depiction than evening network television.

To exact their revenge, gamers have turned their vitriol on Cooper Lawrence, an author who appeared to mischaracterize the game when she said: ?Here?s how they?re seeing women: They?re seeing them as these objects of desire, as these, you know, hot bodies. They don?t show women as being valued for anything other than their sexuality. And it?s a man in this game deciding how many women he wants to be with.?

In fact Mass Effect allows users to play as either a man or a woman, and the few suggestions of intimate contact occur in the context of a detailed interpersonal story line. Asked on the air by Geoff Keighley of Spike TV whether she had ever played the game, Ms. Lawrence laughed and said, ?No.?

Irate gamers have flooded the page on Amazon.com selling Ms. Lawrence?s most recent book, ?The Cult of Perfection: Making Peace With Your Inner Overachiever,? sending its user-generated rating into oblivion.

By Friday afternoon 412 of the book?s 472 user reviews were the lowest possible rating, one star. Another 48 ratings were for two stars. Only 12 of the ratings were for three stars or higher. In addition, 929 Amazon users had tagged the book with the keyword ?ignorant.? Tied for second place with 744 tags were ?garbage? and ?hypocrisy,? while ?hack? and ?hypocrite? tied for fourth place with 710 votes. Gamers have also attacked the book on the Barnes & Noble Web site.

Many of the reviewers admit that they have not read Ms. Lawrence?s book.

As one Amazon user put it: ?I know all about this book but have never fully read it. Why? Due to the overwhelming backlash, I have no choice but to agree with the 1 star ratings. The rumors are rampant that this book was poorly written and poorly researched. So without verifying the contents myself ? I give it a 1 star. Good thing video games aren?t judged in this manner ? whew!!!?

On Friday ?The Cult of Perfection? was ranked the 346,106th best-selling book on Amazon. Mass Effect, by contrast, has been a hit, selling more than 1.6 million copies since November. An Amazon spokeswoman said the site would soon begin to remove reviews written by users who had clearly not read the book.

In an interview on Friday, Ms. Lawrence said that since the controversy over her remarks erupted she had watched someone play the game for about two and a half hours. ?I recognize that I misspoke,? she said. ?I really regret saying that, and now that I?ve seen the game and seen the sex scenes it?s kind of a joke.

?Before the show I had asked somebody about what they had heard, and they had said it?s like pornography,? she added. ?But it?s not like pornography. I?ve seen episodes of ?Lost? that are more sexually explicit.?

Electronic Arts, the giant publisher that owns Mass Effect, has asked Fox News for a correction. A Fox News spokesman would say only that Electronic Arts had been offered a chance to appear on the channel. An Electronic Arts spokesman said the company had not yet decided whether to accept the offer.

By telephone from Edmonton, Alberta, Ray Muzyka, the medical doctor who is chief executive of BioWare, the Electronic Arts studio that made Mass Effect, said: ?We?re hurt. We believe in video games as an art form, and on behalf of the 120 people who poured their blood and tears into this game over three years, we?re just really hurt that someone would misrepresent the game without even playing it. All we can hope for is that people who actually play our games will see the truth.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/26/ar...ts&oref=slogin


Well 1 down.... foxnews needs to admit they screwed up.

[Tails_Kitsune]

I am glad to see that at least Mrs. Cooper was willing to take a look at the game and give it a second opinion. Even if she had still been against the game, I wouldn't have minded so much, now that she actually has something to base her argument off of.

The ESRB ratings are in place and effective at keeping parents on informed. Like many of us have been saying here, though, you can see worse stuff on daytime television. Not that that means games should be able to show worse, it's just that, with ESRB in place, games are actually quite safe (in the hands of conscious parents).

(apologies for length, this is what happens when I have something in the back of my head for a while, and then decide to go ahead and post my thoughts.. at four thirty in the morning.)

We've all been writing essays on this, to some extent. When you're passionate about a subject, it's hard to keep quiet. As you said, Mole, there are some parents out there who could not care less for their child's well-being, and blatantly ignore the ratings so clearly printed on the box.

[Dr_Zoidberg]

The point being these games are going to come out because people, like me, want them. They may even hit the point where they become to offensive to too many and they lose sales because of that, but even then they will just cut back some, and then eventually try and push the limit again.
Now I haven't had the chance to play mass effect specifically, so this is all me talking out of me arse and more generally.

I have played Mass Effect, and let me tell there is nothing, nothing in that game that could be considered offensive or pornographic to anyone except the most prudish of people. A side shot of a boob and a bit of buttock. The lingerie section of the Next catalogue is more explicit and that doesn't even have a rating! There is one single scene in which nude love-making is shown in such a way that you don't actually see anything.

For those who want to see this scene for themselves, here you go...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvj6D3...eature=related

THAT'S what the fuss is about.

What pisses me off so much is that there are games that need to be censored (I've linked just such a game in a post above) but nobody seems to be up in arms over that.

There are also other fish to fry with regard to games. Most of us gamers WANT mature games. WITH sex, violence, bad language, crime, and death. But what the game industry is giving us in this regard seem to still be cartoonish knock offs. Kane and Lynch... GTA... Dead or Alive (and the beach volleyball version)... Gears of War... It's trite, poorly written, childish crap when you look at it compared to something like Twelve Monkeys or even something like Indiana Jones. Its like a kids idea of what "mature" is, which isn't very mature. I hope this entire debate leads game developers to re-asses the tastes of their target audience.

However, judging from the reaction of that audience (flaming, spamming up websites, throwing tantrums) I don't think it's very likely.

[Premonition]

Like TV or movies they should leave games alone. There is games for every type of gamer. Its the parents job to decide what they want their kids playing. Buy a wii if you want fun kid games with no sex or violence (well outside of manhunt 2 and res evil of course).

But when i play on the 360. I want guns, shooting, action, deep story lines etc etc etc. Eternal sonata starts off with a kid girl appearing to jump off a cliff (commit suicide). That was a great rpg and you dont find out to the end of why the game starts off that way.
But like tv they shouldnt stop something from being made just because they dont like it. Gamers vary in age and the games should appeal to every age group.

Mass Effect right after eternal sonata was 2 of my faverite games at the end of last year. Im old enough to drink, pay taxes, and buy games i wanna play because i think they are fun. Argument can be made that parents who play the same games with kids, have a chance to bond with their kids and make them relax more since they share common bonds. That in itself is part of being a good parent is having the trust that you can talk to you kid and be able to explain right from wrong.

I laughed my taill off reading some of those amazon reviews.

[{CLR} Major.Massacre]

I just watched the clip on Youtube of the news... And I was thoroughly disgusted.

Claiming that this game discriminates against females is just outright ignorant. I'm going to suppose that all those movies and television programs that show explicit sex don't, though. Even though the nature of these scenes are much worse than what you're going to find in any video game, they don't seem to have anything negative to say about them.

I can't believe she had the nerve to say that 'Young boys can not tell the difference between video games and reality.' Not only is that lie, it's an insult. I can guarantee you that any child who has had his parents pay attention to his playing habits and speak to him about video games can tell you the difference between the two. But hey, now we're talking about ourselves here, and we're not particularly fond of doing so.

This was blown so out of proportion that it isn't even funny.

They act as if anyone who touches these games are going to spiral down a whirlpool of insanity and crime. And, being an avid gamer myself for just about my entire life, I'm going to have to disagree with that.

Ignorance is bliss, after all. Mistakes have been made... others will be blamed.

Well said! +1

[-IRC-MIKE]

...Ms. Lawrence said that since the controversy over her remarks erupted she had watched someone play the game for about two and a half hours. "I recognize that I misspoke," she said. "I really regret saying that, and now that I've seen the game and seen the sex scenes it's kind of a joke.
"Before the show I had asked somebody about what they had heard, and they had said it's like pornography," she added. "But it's not like pornography. I've seen episodes of 'Lost' that are more sexually explicit."

http://kotaku.com/349296/ea-vs-fox-l...fect-judgement

[Trooper110]

lol, at least she's trying to put things to rights.....or probably more likely save her own rear. I still think she kissed her ass goodbye when she made those comments though.