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**ViTO** · 8 Mar 2008, 08:52 PM

Although I have not watched any of these videos....

I will say- anytime you mobilize a large force for long periods, you will always get a few stories like this. Plain and simple there are good and bad even in the military.

Violence like this happens everyday in this country, and frankly I find it AMAZING that you dont hear more about it while at war overseas.

So I guess I trying to say... I feel our soldiers are the most professional forces in the world and a few bad apples don't sway my opinion in the least.

**NikkiWikkiEmoChikki** · 8 Mar 2008, 09:49 PM

well you just have to look at the videos...it helps really.

**-Bar** · 8 Mar 2008, 10:05 PM

Welcome to war... it gets messy. Weed out the bad ones and push forward. If you think our forces are bad.... Iran has suicide in it military doctrine. Well "Martyr"... Which I believe translates out to "I am worthless piece of crap". Or you can go to Africa....

Our troops do a fine job. The bads ones are booted very fast. We have many members of the US military that play here at Cain's, a few have even been to Iraq. They are good guys and we owe them a lot.

**{CLR}geneSW** · 8 Mar 2008, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by NikkiWikkiEmoChikki

well you just have to look at the videos...it helps really.

The actions of a few do not represent the group as a whole. Please keep this in mind.

War is nasty, very nasty. Honestly I wish the news would keep out of it. We can't do nearly half of the actions we need to (like bomb entire cave complexes) because the news would display it at a negative angle. You will get civilian casatulities in war. Take the 1 or 2 innocents who die from us compared to the 20-30 terrorists/enemies who die from our fire as well. just my opinion.

**LIMEY** · 9 Mar 2008, 12:29 AM

Meh. sorry but we are doing far more good there than bad and alot of those types of videos have been shown to be fakes done by namby pamby peacenick military/america haters

**Thrashdragon** · 9 Mar 2008, 12:37 AM

In any large group of people you will find some bad seeds. The important thing is that you don't let your perception of the whole be colored by the actions of a few.

**L_Mo** · 9 Mar 2008, 01:15 AM

In my experience with the US Army there are a lot of people who take their job seriously, but also also a large portion that goof off and act irresponsibly when they feel the repercussions won't be that bad.

Yes, in any large group you'll have some bad seeds, but that's what the Catholic church used to say about it's priests molesting boys. Just as the priesthood attracts people trying to run away from their bad thoughts, the military tends to attract people who are more likely going to get themselves in trouble when left to their own devices. At least in my observation from 4 years in highschool, the people who tended to join the Army (including my brother) were the screwups.

I don't accept the cop-out that "war is nasty" any more than I accept "kids will be kids" as an excuse for misbehavior. I understand it's a large operation, and some things like the above videos (real or not..) are bound to happen, but I disagree that our troops, at least the ones I've seen, are the most professional.

I'm very thankful that the media is allows to keep an eye on things like this. The ends don't justify the means, and if an action will help you achieve a victory at the sacrifice of innocents, it shouldn't be done. I'm sure hitler didn't want the media around to report on the holocaust either... I'm just using that as an extreme example to show that a media presence makes sure things don't get out of hand.

**{CLR}geneSW** · 9 Mar 2008, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by L_Mo

I don't accept the cop-out that "war is nasty" any more than I accept "kids will be kids" as an excuse for misbehavior. I understand it's a large operation, and some things like the above videos (real or not..) are bound to happen, but I disagree that our troops, at least the ones I've seen, are the most professional.

Go to any base, you'll find that 80% or more of the military is professional, more so then most other career fields. Oh, and one more thing before I forget. "War is nasty" because of the death involved in it and the hardships that all of those involved in it have to go through. Yes, "War is nasty" does not nor should it extend to the death of innocents, but when you are fighting an enemy who looks exactly the same as an innocent, you have to assume that everybody is the enemy at first, and then choose to react based on their actions. It's a matter of protecting your own hide and the hide of those who fight beside you. We call each other "brother in arms" for a reason, because we are like brothers when the crap hits the fan.

Also, please understand that most people who go into the army acting completely stupid and in-mature will come out a changed person, and those that don't, 90% of the time they will/do get discharged for something they will do before they can get into a war zone. I would love to know how 4 years in high school can hold up to the same principals that the USA, USMC, USN, USCG, and USAF instill in the people who join.

Sorry if you ment it otherwise, but that's how it sounded to me.

**L_Mo** · 9 Mar 2008, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by seiko

Go to any base, you'll find that 80% or more of the military is professional, more so then most other career fields.

No disagreement from me there. I guess my point/issues is that I hold the US military to a higher standard, and 20% non-professionalism is too high for me. I guess I can't demand total perfection, but the difference is when people goof off in an an office building they play a computer prank. When people goof off while deployed they have slightly more dangerous toys to use for pranks (like throwing flashbangs at sheep...) The active military represents us as a country, so I guess I always expect them to behave admirably. My biggest beef has been things like abu ghraib, and while that may be an isolated incident, it worries me that things like this are happening on a smaller scale and go unreported.

When I write a scientific journal article the text has to be flawless. The idea being that if someone spots a spelling/grammar mistake, they might assume this reflects upon the quality of my work and it puts all my experimental data to question as well. That's why I don't like the "don't let a few individuals spoil the image of the group" argument. I've seen the few bad examples, and I worry now that they're everywhere and things just go unreported.

Regarding the high school comment - I take it back.. it was an unfair judgment. I knew a lot of people -before- they joined the army and they weren't exactly top caliber, but there's a lot of room to grow, so hopefully they straightened out.

**{CLR}geneSW** · 9 Mar 2008, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by L_Mo

Originally posted by seiko

Go to any base, you'll find that 80% or more of the military is professional, more so then most other career fields.

No disagreement from me there. I guess my point/issues is that I hold the US military to a higher standard, and 20% non-professionalism is too high for me. I guess I can't demand total perfection, but the difference is when people goof off in an an office building they play a computer prank. When people goof off while deployed they have slightly more dangerous toys to use for pranks (like throwing flashbangs at sheep...) The active military represents us as a country, so I guess I always expect them to behave admirably. My biggest beef has been things like abu ghraib, and while that may be an isolated incident, it worries me that things like this are happening on a smaller scale and go unreported.

When I write a scientific journal article the text has to be flawless. The idea being that if someone spots a spelling/grammar mistake, they might assume this reflects upon the quality of my work and it puts all my experimental data to question as well. That's why I don't like the "don't let a few individuals spoil the image of the group" argument. I've seen the few bad examples, and I worry now that they're everywhere and things just go unreported.

Regarding the high school comment - I take it back.. it was an unfair judgment. I knew a lot of people -before- they joined the army and they weren't exactly top caliber, but there's a lot of room to grow, so hopefully they straightened out.

Trust me, the 20% or so (which is a very high number that I posted up, I should have posted up smaller. Something more realistic) that aren't professional will eventually get kicked out. Lets also keep in mind that everybody has to goof around once in awhile, find something to laugh about. Yes, in a wartime environment using a flash bang on a sheep shouldn't be your source of laughter, but perhaps they had been out in the field for a few days straight, and was completely bored, with a lack of sleep. Under the stress of war, with a lack of sleep, and complete boredom, one will find some very odd things to do. I'm not condoning what they did, I'm simply saying that there could be other factors involved aside from just boredom.

Most of the people who find something to do to keep then sane, find it before the complete boredom sets in. Keeping a journal, writing music, something humane.

**DougBob** · 11 Mar 2008, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by L_Mo View Post

When I write a scientific journal article the text has to be flawless. The idea being that if someone spots a spelling/grammar mistake, they might assume this reflects upon the quality of my work and it puts all my experimental data to question as well.

I'm afraid our guys and gals in the armed forces don't have tools like that to prevent their problems from occurring.

Frankly, I'm very proud of every single one of them. I know we have the usual few bad apples that have no business being in the situations they are. I will never blame the group for these few knuckle heads actions.

**BenKenobi** · 11 Mar 2008, 08:00 AM

2 cents real quick

Theres going to be, to put it bluntly, douchebags wherever you go.

You can't judge a group of over 400,000 people in the army by something a couple of them do.

**Todd98** · 12 Mar 2008, 10:37 AM

There will always be that handfull of people that will be bad but they are the few and does not represent the rest of those who are good. There are always bad things happening in war time as that is war.

**GeneralSnake** · 12 Mar 2008, 11:42 AM

Notice, that those were all army. I just want to point that out. When they crushed the car, they said some crap about US army tankers.
We went through so much training about morality and ethics and all that good stuff in bootcamp.

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