High speed chase, shooting - something's fishy !

[Devilguns]

It gets even weirder:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5744733.html


It just seems odd. Even if it turns out he was lying. How do you get away with it for so long? He really would have been nut case to go as far as having phony plaques made up and have some one take his picture on the CIA seal.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5748085.html

It does seems like a big case of some 50+ year old wanna be but enough tid bits in there to make you go hmmm.

Here's a video of the news story:

http://www.wcsh6.com/includes/builda...ot_nbc.wmv&sp=

How did he even become president of the local chapter for intelligence officers? You would have think some one might have asked a question or 2 when he started that.

[-IRC-MIKE]

If he was actually some sort of undercover intelligence personnel and were hot on the trail of some corruption in the precinct, his actions could be viewed as valid attempts to save his own life. Knowing that this is a possibility, I am skeptical of the intentions and actions of the officers. Who knows? I have a good feeling that this is going to blow up sometime or another or either it will be swept under the rug.

Either this is the case and he was elusive to save his own skin...unsuccessfully.. or he was an impersonator and ran to escape them finding out his real identity and impersonations. It is a bit wishy washy since, if he were intelligence, he would not need a conceal and carry permit. He may have gotten his conceal-n-carry permit BEFORE he joined whatever agency he worked for and if I were him, I'd keep my permits legit even IF I didn't need them.

It's like right now, I have a Class A commercial drivers license. I don't drive a rig or anything like that anymore but I'd like to keep my Class A just because.... I'd do the same if it were a C&C permit.

Under the circumstances of how long he's gotten away with it and the amount of people he's allegedly fooled, I give him the benefit of the doubt and until proven otherwise, I believe he is who he said he was.

The man was 50 some odd years old and there's a stretch of time there that he might not have been an agent. He might have gotten his conceal and carry permit at 25 years old or so.

Ultimately, time will tell.

[DougBob]

This has nothing to do with a police state.

Keep telling your self that.

Christ I'm surprised you didn't ask why didn't they just wing him? Besides lets put this in context

Why didn't they! You know I keep thinking yeah I agree with mapes, but my the other part says no. I do not agree, I cannot!
You know something has happen to the days of reasonable force and until they can tell me and show me on camera he had a weapon in his hand and that's what he was reaching to get... No they were not in the clear to use deadly force. You can use all the lingo you want, but it's a flat out no.

The appropriate action would be not to resist arrest. Not to go on a high speed chase and not to make furtive motions when people are pointing guns at you!

You know I totally agree, but guess what, he did and he may turn out to be a psycho, but they should have handled it differently.
The point I'm trying to make is, I don't care they killed him, it's doesn't matter a hill of beans to me. I'm saying either he has a weapon in his hand or he doesn't, if he did and they saw it, all right way to go. The thing I want people to understand is we can't keep going like this, we have to get the certainty back in the system. I don't like the way it's going and I don't like the relaxed attitude the public is adopting concerning it. They are getting to de-sensitized to this kind of action from watching reality shows on TV.

[-IRC-MIKE]

Keep telling your self that.


Why didn't they! You know I keep thinking yeah I agree with mapes, but my the other part says no. I do not agree, I cannot!
You know something has happen to the days of reasonable force and until they can tell me and show me on camera he had a weapon in his hand and that's what he was reaching to get... No they were not in the clear to use deadly force. You can use all the lingo you want, but it's a flat out no.



You know I totally agree, but guess what, he did and he may turn out to be a psycho, but they should have handled it differently.
The point I'm trying to make is, I don't care they killed him, it's doesn't matter a hill of beans to me. I'm saying either he has a weapon in his hand or he doesn't, if he did and they saw it, all right way to go. The thing I want people to understand is we can't keep going like this, we have to get the certainty back in the system. I don't like the way it's going and I don't like the relaxed attitude the public is adopting concerning it. They are getting to de-sensitized to this kind of action from watching reality shows on TV.

I dunno and I don't feel like cutting the quotes down but what I'm telling you is this:

THOUSANDS of cases have been handled differently.. I mean.. CMON.. they could have shot him with a friggin 12 ga. bean bag 3 or 4 times and he would have gotten the picture.

My theory is this.. HE SHOWED them his credentials.. the cops didn't know if they were real or fake.. (BULLSHYT) EVERY cop I know would at LEAST try to figure it out on the scene... RADIO.. you know.. my dollars go to the friggin radios these cops have in their cars.. ....... This was above and beyond. IF.. PER-SAY there was a question of his actual identity, then it would only have taken a minute to figure it out...

The case here is a man .. claims he is who he says he is.. and it looks like he fled the scene. WHY? ...

WHY would an intelligence officer flee ?

Why would a person pretending to be an officer FLEE?

BOTH of these KNOW the outcome of their ignorance...EITHER WAY!

I believe this man was killed to keep his mouth shut about what he may or may not have found out about the crap that goes on....

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG!

[DougBob]

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG!

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. The quick response to shot without verifying his claim means someone for some reason wanted him quite.

[IceBluLady]

I dunno and I don't feel like cutting the quotes down but what I'm telling you is this:

THOUSANDS of cases have been handled differently.. I mean.. CMON.. they could have shot him with a friggin 12 ga. bean bag 3 or 4 times and he would have gotten the picture.

My theory is this.. HE SHOWED them his credentials.. the cops didn't know if they were real or fake.. (BULLSHYT) EVERY cop I know would at LEAST try to figure it out on the scene... RADIO.. you know.. my dollars go to the friggin radios these cops have in their cars.. ....... This was above and beyond. IF.. PER-SAY there was a question of his actual identity, then it would only have taken a minute to figure it out...

The case here is a man .. claims he is who he says he is.. and it looks like he fled the scene. WHY? ...

WHY would an intelligence officer flee ?

Why would a person pretending to be an officer FLEE?

BOTH of these KNOW the outcome of their ignorance...EITHER WAY!

I believe this man was killed to keep his mouth shut about what he may or may not have found out about the crap that goes on....

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG!

The cop did radio it in


Doubts about Carnaby's true identity were compounded by conflicting information, Jett said. The officer also had contacted HPD's criminal intelligence and major offenders divisions to ask them to check Carnaby's credentials, he said.

"They told him 'No, we think he's a fraud,' " Jett said. "Something apparently triggered on his name, but again nobody was sure. Nobody's still sure. They'd heard his name before and they thought no, he's not (CIA)."

The officer was told to "find something to arrest him on; you can't arrest him for speeding," Jett said.

Carnaby had not shown his concealed weapon permit, which was sufficient violation to hold him. But when he was asked to step out of his SUV, Carnaby sped away, Jett said.

[{CLR} Major.Massacre]

That's a really, really interesting story. Sounds like an assassination to me.

+1 Thats the first thing I thought.

[Hammy]

I have to disagree, it's seems this country has gotten overly ready to react instead of pausing just the milli second to see if the action is warranted.
With two guns trained on the individual there is no possible way they could get a weapon trained on the police in time to acurately shoot first. The appropirate action was to wait just in time to id a weapon and then fire. The out come would be the same and the police would not be harmed. Their adrenaline was high enough to allow a reaction time fast enough to still be in a safety zone.
We need to get out of the habit of shoot first and ask questions later when it's someones life at stake. Unless we just want to live in a police state we need to think more ,instead of reacting more.
If it would have been a private citizen, the outcome would not be the same, even if they did claim they feared for their life. The questions would hit them hard concerning did they see the weapon. When I shoot, there will be a 99.9999% certainty they had a weapon.
I'm not saying we should be relaxed on crime, don't get me wrong. Just the opposite, I think we should be tougher on crime. I'm saying we need to use the increased amount of training we're getting and not resort to the easier and safer way out.
It just seems to me if one of these guys were using a stun weapon instead, there would have been a plenty of coverage to apprehend or take him out.

+1

The contributing factor is that he would not yield to the officers when they turned on their overheads.

He then exceeded the speed limit when he did not yield.
EVERYONE becomes suspect in this situation, and the only thing on an Officers' mind at this point is threat containment.

That car is the primary weapon. Whatever is inside that car, unknown at this point, is threat number two. And that includes the person.

REGARDING the CIA

Contractors are not officers of the CIA, but they often are credentialed and empowered. Do not read too far into this situation. I view this one as someone whose head got too big for his role, that was driving around with several weapons in his car and likely was not authorized.

ALSO

Standard procedure in a vehicle related shooting is to seal the car and tow it to a secure location and then turn it out. ESPECIALLY if the victim were an officer or agent of a state, local or federal agency.

Finding the guns after the fact is not surprising in this particular case.


LASTLY

Certain Federal Creds do not come up when you do a standard check via License and Reg.
There are footnotes.
If this guy is a contractor, those notes may not be attached to his public profile, thus it would be difficult to request confirmation from said agency.
There are reference numbers that dispatch calls to get clearance to confirm.
In this case, a field agent from a local federal agency would have to be dispatched to the onsite location
OR
He would have to be taken into custody until said agency could deploy an agent.

If there is a footnote, there is a series of checks that need to take place with information given at each gate, to validate.
If the person is not willing to co-operate, then it gets very complicated and usually ends with the agent being taken into custody until he can be confirmed or his release cleared.

How do I know all this?

Where I live we have a TON of emissaries and consulate members.
Where I grew up, when I was a Police Explorer, we had this happen on a routine traffic stop, and the agent would not comply.
The Watch Commander showed up, we went through it all again, twice, and the asshead would not comply.

We cuffed him, relieved him of his firearms (he had 3) and took him down town.
When we came back from our shift, I asked where the guy was and was told "what guy? and if you ask again, I will ask you the same question"