Downloading Games

[Hammy]

I think games are like candy. You don't really need them but they sure are nice to have around. Would it be OK to take some candy without asking for it or paying for it if you only intended to eat it yourself? Would it matter if you intended to sell the candy to someone else? How about if you intended to share the candy with a friend?

If someone was handing out free samples of M&M's so you could decide if you liked them before you bought a whole bag would it make it OK to just take some Skittles off the rack because nobody was handing out free samples? If you really enjoyed your Skittles after you ate them would you go back to the store and say "I really liked the product I stole so I would like to legalize my actions by paying you for it"?

Is it just code? Yes. Is it still someone elses property? Yes. Do you have it without compensating them for the time and effort they put into producing it? Yes. C'mon.

I get what you are saying, and it jives with my view.

Another example: Portal.
Steam had a weekend where you could play the first few levels- I did, and it was so much fun I bought it.

But stealing it to grant yourself a so called "demo" is absolute nonsense. The number one reason in both Consumer and Business software that someone will legitimize content, again I know this for fact, is when there is a bug that will not resolve itself without a patch. And sometimes, you cannot get the patch without a legitimate copy.

Recent example, one of my customers was cloning their application for additional environments- not a problem unless you register it and the number of CPU's it is being run on.

But there was a problem with a revision of the OS environment, and the OS released an update, causing our company to create an update. So when these people went to go grab the patch, the registery caught the serial numbers on the CPUs and said "bzzt contact support".

And of couse they said "uh yeah- we meant to pay for this all along, we thought you knew we were cloning- and because you didnt bill us, we thought we bought an unlimited CPU/Enviro copy"

Wrong answer.

Same goes with consumers. I dont believe anyone who utilizes a pirated copy actually intends to purchase the valid copy, until there are some features and benefits such as unique online GUIDs and such that they cannot use until they validate.

I mean cmon! It takes far too much work to steal something to simply say "I did all this work to download, find or create the crack, and then deploy it in a way that masks it from security- so that I would then forego all that effort and pony up the cash"

I smell doo doo if that is the excuse.

[Evil_T0NY {CLR}]

Remember we used to purchase a game (one person would purchase it) then that person would burn it and give that copy to a neighbor?

If that physical DVD was checked out at the cashier...it's already purchased....and that person can feel free to do as he pleases with that DVD, he can play frisbee with it, burn it, copy it and give it to a friend....since that's the case, how is it stealing if it was paid for at the store?

Food for thought. lol

[Hammy]

Remember we used to purchase a game (one person would purchase it) then that person would burn it and give that copy to a neighbor?

If that physical DVD was checked out at the cashier...it's already purchased....and that person can feel free to do as he pleases with that DVD, he can play frisbee with it, burn it, copy it and give it to a friend....since that's the case, how is it stealing if it was paid for at the store?

Food for thought. lol

You should read the End User License Agreement on software sometime.
It states (in most cases of software) in some form that you never own the product, you are licensed as the user of said content, and they often reserve the right to "recall" your license at anytime.

[Hammy]

I wonder what the world would be like if we were to find it acceptable to "crack" the electronic coding of keyless entry on a car, "crack " the electronic key validation on the ignition and "test" drive a car for awhile, then show up at the dealer a few months later, not only wanting to "legitimize" our car, but also asking for $5000 off sticker, plus an additional discount for miles and wear and tear....

what? it's the same thing as what people are doing with software.....

[Toryu72]

I saw no one said nothing about how much it cost. There you have the biggest problem, if they lower their price just maybe, all will disappear. But i think it will stay anyway.

In Sweden a music album cost today 25.86 dollars and more if you have bad luck. that is lots of money, for that you can buy food, clothes, or something else.

Sure they want to make money. But it cos problems too, people start downloading more then ever. It's a world wide problem.
Same goes to movies too, like Evil tony said above.
Games too. I do remember when my dad buy a tape just to record his music, so he could listen in his car, when he use to drive.
Some other share many things early in the 80's, i think whole thing started there. Long time ago and no one cared. Now is to late.

This will keep going on, whatever the law do about it, it won't disappear, you know, war it won't disappear either, opps sorry bad by me!

[omfg karl marx]

Piracy is NOT stealing. Stealing or theft implies that an actual good is lost. If I were to go steal a brand new 2009 Corvette ZR1, Chevy would lose whatever money it cost to produce that particular car. Downloading music, movies, or games does not COST the producer anything. They only lose potential revenue. Not everyone who downloads the game would have bought it. If I download a copy of Barbie Fashion Designer (a game I would have never bought) off of BT, does Activision lose money? Am I really contributing to the over $9B in losses?

[JohnyRico]

Piracy IS stealing. That code is the intellectual property of the software designer. You have the fruit of their labor and you have not compensated them for it. An idea has real value and is legally protected from theft. If Bethesda spends thousands of hours to design and produce Fallout 3 then they have a huge investment in that product. It was not created for free. It doesn't matter if you think it's overpriced. It doesn't matter if it's something you would never buy. It's theirs and they don't want to share it with you for free.

[omfg karl marx]

Piracy IS stealing. That code is the intellectual property of the software designer. You have the fruit of their labor and you have not compensated them for it. An idea has real value and is legally protected from theft. If Bethesda spends thousands of hours to design and produce Fallout 3 then they have a huge investment in that product. It was not created for free. It doesn't matter if you think it's overpriced. It doesn't matter if it's something you would never buy. It's theirs and they don't want to share it with you for free.

You can't steal intellectual property. You can pirate or plagiarize IP. That's not the issue here. I'm just saying it's not the same as stealing a car. It doesn't cost Bethesda a thing if I were to download a copy of Fallout 3. (which I do own, mind you.)

I'm not really arguing the ethics of piracy here - I'm just making an important distinction.

[JohnyRico]

Let's make history on the internet and agree to disagree.

[K PhaNTOM]

Let's make history on the internet and agree to disagree.

I can't let you do that, I disagree with agreeing to disagreeing.

[Hammy]

You can't steal intellectual property. You can pirate or plagiarize IP. That's not the issue here. I'm just saying it's not the same as stealing a car. It doesn't cost Bethesda a thing if I were to download a copy of Fallout 3. (which I do own, mind you.)

I'm not really arguing the ethics of piracy here - I'm just making an important distinction.

I dont know why you are pushing buttons here, but it is a fact that Intellectual Property can be stolen. Go online, see in this article how the DOJ defines Intellectual Property theft to be:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ipt02.pdf

Notice they use the word stealing several times?

[Hammy]

From my brother who is an Entertainment and Copyright lawyer at San Francisco's largest Sports and Entertainment firm:

(My name omitted), I hate to be a jerk, but your friend is about as wrong as you can possibly be. The easiest example is the illegal downloading of copyrighted songs on the internet. The songs are IP, and when you download them illegallly you are stealing (a theft crime) the songs form the IP holder. It's certianly not plagerism to illegally download a song, but it is stealing.

I will be speaking at the California Lawyers for the Arts annual meeting next Saturday [location omitted] on this exact topic.

[JohnyRico]

I can't let you do that, I disagree with agreeing to disagreeing.

I disagree to disagree to agree to disagree. TIMES INFINITY! HA! Rico wins!

[K PhaNTOM]

I disagree to disagree to agree to disagree. TIMES INFINITY! HA! Rico wins!

Damn it!

[Toryu72]

Poor K Phantom