Arrogant Mac Users

[Evil_T0NY {CLR}]

Within' 30 mins of the April Fools Virus someone posted this on my FB

Oh, it's an .exe file... for PC users... that's right, Macs tend to be virus-free...

Someone's response:

No...Macs make up such a small percentage of the computer-using population that it's not worth it for a hacker to attack Macs.

His response:

Or, it's just tougher to hack a Mac over a PC. 5% is still quite a lot of users and considering all the supposed Mac hate it would make sense to go after them, which makes one wonder why hackers go after users that use the same OS as they do ...

Agree or disagree...if MACS dominated the market....do you believe hackers could hack Macs just as well as PC's?

Reason Mac's don't get infected, is because Mac's are not WORTH hacking for hackers, right?

[DougBob]

Easy, it is a known fact and even taught in security pen classes and certification courses that Macs are exactly as you said, a smaller percentage of the market which is a smaller target and just as easy to hack as windows

[Savage_Hobo]

Well... Yes... and no....

Macs are not infected by "conventional" viruses because of how the operating system is built. The Mac OS operating system is built on the BSD Kernel (Similar to Unix or Linux) where as Windows is build on ... well... the Windows Kernel. The BSD/UNIX kernel has been around for a lot longer than the Windows one.. so more of the bugs have been worked out.

This latest Conficker Virus targets a flaw in Windows that doesn't affect BSD/Unix computers.

It is still possible for a "virus" to infect a Mac/BSD/Unix system.. but it is more likely a root kit..... but I digress...

Short answer.. Yes... and No

[Trooper110]

If Mac and Linux machines were more prevalent in the mass of internet users there would be hackers going after them as well. There is no system that is hack proof, no OS that is bug or virus proof. The major financial rewards right now are in hacking enough machines to get yourself a good botnet and then renting it out for "actual" money. Which means that as the largest percentage of machines that are "compatible" and on the net right now are Windows machines, it makes the most economic sense.

Some hackers or virus writers might be in it to create chaos or be asshats, but the majority just want money. We'll see what Conficker is designed to do soon I fear.

[{CLR}geneSW]

Mac's, just like another other OS have their flaws. They are no less easier to "hack" or "infect" then a Windows computer. There is always a back-door to any Kernel, it's just a simple matter of a little time, patience, and know-how.

[BigTwinky]

I don't get the statement "well 5% is still alot of users". It kind of shows that the poster doesn't really have logical thinking in this matter.

More people hack Windows as there are WAY more potential users to contaminate. The more people hack windows, the more information on HOW to hack Windows is available on hacker sites.

So if I have 10,000,000 computers users.
Thats 500,000 MAC users and 9,500,000 PC users.
Why would someone spend 1,000 hours to hack 500,000 MACs when he can spend 500 hours to hack 9,500,000.

While some hackers are out for a challenge, the majority of them, as I see it, want to see how far, how many, how much damage they can do. And most times, these people aren't even the ones who create the viruses.

I take Mafiaboy, a kid from Montreal who in 2000 caused a denial of service on CNN, Amazon, Dell, Ebay, Yahoo. He didn't create the cause of the problem, he just used something he found on a hacking website and used it to see how many people he could infect. Sure, he could of used it on a smaller scale on just a few local websites, but again, as he wants to hit as many people as possible, he attacked big name websites.

Randomness over

[WalkinTarget]

Chrome is immune to hax, so I guess we just need Google to create an OS and we can all switch to that and kiss this spyware crap goodbye !!


Ohhh, I am such a smartaholic !!!

[Hammy]

I simply say it this way:

The Mac user tends to like things easier, as in, sit down and serve it up (the computer experience as a whole)

The Windows user tends to like things in control. Lots of things to do, click this, do that, guard this, check that. Tinker tinker tinker.

Being that the Mac user likes things done for them, in my mind, there isnt anything in the computer in the first place for me to exploit.

[mapes]

I simply say it this way:

The Mac user tends to like things easier, as in, sit down and serve it up (the computer experience as a whole)

The Windows user tends to like things in control. Lots of things to do, click this, do that, guard this, check that. Tinker tinker tinker.

Being that the Mac user likes things done for them, in my mind, there isnt anything in the computer in the first place for me to exploit.

Ahem Windows users have no idea the amount of control you can get out of a Unix based machine. For example I run a 20 Ubuntu servers each running VMware here at work. Each box has ten guest OS's running. Each box is dedicated to a OS type. These boxes use a proprietary testing tool to perform reads, writes and deletes on NFS and CIFS mounted file systems. Getting the most performance out of these clients is imperative. On the VMware hosts I was able to make kernel modifications to drastically improve overall system performance. Stuff like when you mount an file system do not record file access times. I could modify at the extreme low level how the 10GB interface kernel module worked. I could disable certain features and compile into the kernel more optimized modules. Stuff you just can't do in Windows.

Weighing in on the Virus mac debate I don't think it's one factor or another but, a combination of factors


1. Less over all percentage of Macs in the total computer population
2. Since there are less Macs this also means there are less Mac Virus developers
3. Windows has the lion share of users and virus developers
4. Windows, although has made great strides in security lately by reason of easy of use allows for a machine that is easier to compromise and also easier to be used as a vector to propagate the virus
5. Since windows is the majority player this means that there is an extremely large population of that user group that are not technically savvy and virus developers want the most bang for their buck.

So I think it's a matter of windows being a target rich environment or easily exploitable machines that are then easier to leverage in a bot net with less work needed overall.


Interestingly enough I'm reading Brute Force, Cracking The Data Encryption Standard which talks about brute forcing DES keys. The Guys from the DESChallenge group made clients for almost any type of PC or mainframe. Granted this was in the mid 90's but, it's interesting to note some of they're statistics based on OS/Proc type that processed the most keys...Hands down was x86 Windows boxes... For two reasons. the large populations of such machines and the fact that the devs of the key cracking code optimised the hell outt of they're software.... Interesting stuff.

[Hammy]

Ahem Windows users have no idea the amount of control you can get out of a Unix based machine. For example I run a 20 Ubuntu servers each running VMware here at work. Each box has ten guest OS's running. Each box is dedicated to a OS type. These boxes use a proprietary testing tool to perform reads, writes and deletes on NFS and CIFS mounted file systems. Getting the most performance out of these clients is imperative. On the VMware hosts I was able to make kernel modifications to drastically improve overall system performance. Stuff like when you mount an file system do not record file access times. I could modify at the extreme low level how the 10GB interface kernel module worked. I could disable certain features and compile into the kernel more optimized modules. Stuff you just can't do in Windows.

Weighing in on the Virus mac debate I don't think it's one factor or another but, a combination of factors


1. Less over all percentage of Macs in the total computer population
2. Since there are less Macs this also means there are less Mac Virus developers
3. Windows has the lion share of users and virus developers
4. Windows, although has made great strides in security lately by reason of easy of use allows for a machine that is easier to compromise and also easier to be used as a vector to propagate the virus
5. Since windows is the majority player this means that there is an extremely large population of that user group that are not technically savvy and virus developers want the most bang for their buck.

So I think it's a matter of windows being a target rich environment or easily exploitable machines that are then easier to leverage in a bot net with less work needed overall.


Interestingly enough I'm reading Brute Force, Cracking The Data Encryption Standard which talks about brute forcing DES keys. The Guys from the DESChallenge group made clients for almost any type of PC or mainframe. Granted this was in the mid 90's but, it's interesting to note some of they're statistics based on OS/Proc type that processed the most keys...Hands down was x86 Windows boxes... For two reasons. the large populations of such machines and the fact that the devs of the key cracking code optimised the hell outt of they're software.... Interesting stuff.

I like my point of view better than yours.
And I like Pie.

[Sirex]

Pea's beans and potatos....
All the same but different.

The debate over mac/win/nix has been fought for years and will continue... why?
Because the users of one cant understand why the users of the other use it...

Simply, each OS is catered to the needs of its users, simple.
Mac - Simple, out the box, ready, no fiddly bits
Win - Midline, can fiddle with it, can change it but not to the extent where things get confusing (most ppl like this)
Nix - Expertish, can change everything, anything and fiddle with things majority of pc users wont understand.

I use windows, why? cos I dont have to have to compile everything on my system again when i update a program the others use.
I can alter it and fiddle to my hearts content, and yes you can break it but not to the extent of setting the wrong setting on a nix system and it not booting or mounting the harddrive partitions.

Its simple, once ppl start accepting that the 3 major types are there for diff user experiences, things will be ok in the "oh mine is way better" debate (which i see as a pointless thing to me).
If your never gonna use a system, dont bash it, you dunno the reasons that user group uses it.

As for mac viruses, they do exist, and yes just a vulnerable as windows, why?
majority of viruses now use flaws in the OS to work.
I'm pretty sure Mac and Nix are not bulletproof either, just there is more win machines, so target them.


Why windows and not mac?
Think of it this way, if it where a real virus, and it had the choice of living in human, or in lions, it would pick humans...
Why?

Think about it, more of us, where in close proximity to each other all the time, in contact, and provide easy ways of tranmission to another host.
There is more windows machines, usually there is another just next to it, wired up, easy transmission, close contact.
Thats why ppl dont target mac, there is no 100% that the virus will survive in the wild with only 5% of all of the 'species' being compatable.

plus with nix the configuration of each machine is usually different, so its harder to predict what will happen.
Virus makers have their own motives, its like ppl hacking in game, I dun get why they do it, but they must have a reason in order to goto such an end.