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    Nvidia vs. ATI - discussion thread

    Its quite clear at this point that Nvidia is pushing for a very high transistor count card with loads of throughput, but for the average gamer do we really need to be thinking that a $650 vide card is justifiable ??

    Consider the fact that Nvidia's now soon to be End Of Life'd 9800GX2 scores higher in some of the benchmarks and it costs nearly $200 LESS than the flagship GTX280 ... that's not good news, unless you just bought a 9800GX2 !

    Now, lets also consider that Nvidia has decided to go purely performance and left out some of the features that AMD is now offering, such as DX10.1 support. Yea, I know .. its hardly worth mentioning considering the bust that DX10 has been so far, but other features such as GDDR5 and better video support make ATI/AMD the clear winner for any PC hooked up through a flat panel TV.

    AMD/ATI has gone the other direction and is offering the best price/performance cards available, as the 4850 offers better than 9800GTX performance for nerly $100 LESS than the GTX. Nvidia, surprise, surprise, has just announced a major driver update that greatly improves performance on the 9800 GTX cards (they are internally calling it 9800GTX+). Could it be that Nvidia was holding off on this driver update to steal some thunder from the 4850 ??

    We won't know anything until all the cards are on the table (bad pun, sorry), but at this point you need to take serious look at AMD as a player in the gaming scene again, as I'll go on record as saying the 4870X2 will be the fastest card available by the end of July, and that means the GTX280 will be eating its dust.

    Nvidia is well aware of this, so a planned die shrink and possibly a GTX280X2 will be the counter to ATI's X2 card. So lets chat about it and see what happens. The AMD 4850 cards in Crossfire mode show a dramatic improvement in high end games like Crysis, and that means you are paying less than $400 to run Crysis at higher than 40FPS in 1920x1200 with 4X AA/AF. Crossfire's new implementation, unlike previous SLI setups, seems to have both cards working much better in tandem, so the scores are quite a bit higher than the 35% we've seen from past SLI configs.

    So there it is ... two ways of dealing with an issue, and both seem to have clear advantages, but the more I read about it, the more it looks like AMD has some very favorable hardware on the horizon. Also note I have never bought ATI in my life, altho I owned an XT1300, a 9600 and a pair of 9800s, but I have been a Team Green guy for quite some.

    That may just change in about two weeks ...

    The topic is now open for discussion. Keep it flame free, and keep in mind all benchmarks are invalid until all of the cards are available and run through numerous tests to determine that the playing field is indeed level. So, what are you most interested in buying ??
    Oh if a man tried to take his time on Earth and prove before he died what one man's life could be worth, well I wonder what would happen to this world ? - Harry Chapin

    #2
    I won't be buying, but if i were i'd almost certainly be going AMD. The GTX280 is pretty much a pointless release by Nvidia. I'll be waiting till the next G80 8800 comes along.

    Good to see that Crossfire is again showing SLI how it's done.

    Comment


      #3
      been ATI since day one, my faithfull 1900XTX still holds up like its lounging watching TV while playing games hehe

      nVidia just seem to be putting out everything they can come up with atm, imho. Instead of using them for internal step up cards.




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        #4
        Well I'm building a PC for our flatpanel TV, and I was originally going to go Intel/Nvidia, but the price for performance on mid range stuff is definitely cheaper for the AMD. I was looking it benchmarks, and it's really unbelievable, the AMD/ATI will save me about 100 dollars for the same things Intel/Nvidia
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          #5
          AMD are the kings of HTPC's.

          Comment


            #6
            Currently running a GTS G80 because the price performance was far beyond anything else at the time. For my next upgrade however, I'm likely to go with a 4870 or possibly 4870X2 if it's reasonable enough. Nvidia has been suffering from Intel syndrome lately: releasing progressively more expensive products that offer little in the way of performance gains for way too much money (due to the lack of high-end competition).

            Hopefully this next round of cards puts ATI back into contention, they've been sitting on the sidelines for far too long.

            Comment


              #7
              I actually was going to go with the 9800GTX and then Step Up to the GTX260 in three months, but now the 9800s will drop in price, so I'm not sure if I wait a bit and buy it cheaper, but that then negates my Step Up bargain, as I still have to pay the difference for the newer card, so instead of $160 to Step Up its now $200, so I'm damned either way.
              I don't particularly like the 9800GTX specs, but it allows me to get a better card than my GTS G80 and the decide in three months whether I want to upgrade or not. That gives me more options than buying the 48xx card, but is it actually worth the extra $$ ?
              Oh if a man tried to take his time on Earth and prove before he died what one man's life could be worth, well I wonder what would happen to this world ? - Harry Chapin

              Comment


                #8
                I really like my 8800GTS, and I don't see me replacing it anytime soon. But when I do I will probably go back to AMD. I just had less issues with AMD. The drivers seemed to be cleaner.
                A change of Pace.
                "All the fun of a clan without the BS" - Cain

                Comment


                  #9
                  Here's a very good read on the new GTX280 cards ... keep in mind this is an opinion and is not a fact based study, but it is nonetheless a worthwhile read if you are in the market for a card:

                  http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/14...280/index.html

                  Question of the day:
                  If the 4870 delivers 80% of GTX 280's performance for half the price, wouldn't it be wiser to buy it instead of 280 ?? That essentially is the crux of my first post, with the idea that AMD is a better buy for the money than Nvidia at this point, but still not the performance king.

                  I would consider the 4870X2 if I wasn't doing a full system upgrade, but alas the money is pretty much gone since I'm replacing the CPU, GPU, board, RAM and HSF
                  Oh if a man tried to take his time on Earth and prove before he died what one man's life could be worth, well I wonder what would happen to this world ? - Harry Chapin

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Well I plan on replacing my current 8800 g92 gts with a second 1
                    Ill hopefully be goin SLI in 1-2 months and then about 6 months after that ill be updating my system from an aging AMD 4800+ on an A8n-sli to an intel 8400 on a 750i FTW

                    If you really want to see what cards are capable of go to tomshardware they have the largest Chart of video cards ive ever seen. They do a monthly card listing for price vs performance. Last time I looked they didnt list the 9800 gx2's in there chart but considering the costs of the newer cards I dont blame them.

                    After replacing an Allinwonder card for an Nvidia card about 9 1/2 years ago I can safely say I will never go back unless nvidia's driver updates go to $hIt like Ati's used to.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Donzi, you've fallen into the trap of criticizing ATI drivers based on issues that happened 6-7 years ago, back when the ATI 9800 was king of the hill. Its irrelevant at this point to hold that against them .. they are NOT ATI any more. They are AMD/ATI and they can handily compete against Nvidia when one is comparing drivers.

                      I agree on the AIW fiasco ... I had a helluva time with their older Catalyst crap, but in two weeks we will start to see price drops (keep in mind these cards are going to be out for all of one week and will not - unlike Intel CPUs - increase in price !) as an honest to goodness price war starts up on the new cards.
                      That's obviously not the norm, as the cards hold their value quite well, but Nvidia (back to my original post here) is going after the high end and ATI sitting in the midrange.

                      But here's the important point in all of this - what is the majority of the market going to buy ?? A $400 card or a $200 card ??? ATI is sitting in a very enviable position for this launch, as their cards are cheaper to produce, yet offer comparable performance based on price. Nvidia is fitting 1 BILLION transistors on a video card, and its not cheap to do that nor to sell that.

                      Would you rather have the performance crown or the sales crown on this one ?
                      Oh if a man tried to take his time on Earth and prove before he died what one man's life could be worth, well I wonder what would happen to this world ? - Harry Chapin

                      Comment


                        #12
                        personally, I like preformance when i'm upgrading, but I upgrade to last for awhile so I don't mind shelling out the cash.
                        [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/echosofbliss/seiko8wy.gif[/IMG]

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well considering that AMD is loosing there butt on most every cpu they make im sure they are undercutting themselves on GPU's also. And just because Nvidia is cramming a ton of transistors into cards that arent goin to go into 95% of all pc's made in the next year i dont care if they want to charge extra to some rich person who wants to part with the cash... Hell i payed $800 for the 4800+ x2 amd chip in my current system and it will be a handme down for the next 10-15 years just like the other 2 computers in my home. Ive cept an eye on ati cards for a while and i honestly havent seen anything i like and until that changes im sticking with Nvidia GPU's and Motherboards.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Benches

                            Dual Core 3.15Ghz E6600
                            Windows Vista 64 Bit (Very slightly slower than 32)

                            8800 GTX
                            10756 3Dmark 06 Stock
                            12fps 1920x1200 Very High Crysis Direct X 10 Benchmark
                            60.12fps 1920x1200 Devil May Cry 4 Direct X 10 Ultra High Test 1
                            41.02fps 1920x1200 Devil May Cry 4 Direct X 10 Ultra High Test 2

                            GTX 280
                            13066 3Dmark 06 Stock
                            21fps 1920x1200 Very High Crysis Direct X 10 Benchmark
                            92.29fps 1920x1200 Devil May Cry 4 Direct X 10 Ultra High Test 1
                            66.97fps 1920x1200 Devil May Cry 4 Direct X 10 Ultra High Test 2

                            Seems to be around 70% faster than 8800GTX

                            39.77fps 1920x1200 Crysis High Direct X 9 Benchmark (Not run on GTX)




                            Well, its arrived!

                            It is bigger than I expected, wieghs about a KG and is bigger than the 8800GTX mostly because of the full card shroud.





                            GTX 280 vs 8800GTX





                            Inside Coolermaster Stacker /w Corsair HX520





                            Requires

                            1x 8 Pin PCIE
                            1x 6 Pin PCIE

                            My PSU has 2x 6 pin PCIE and 0x 8 pin PCIE (Corsair HX520)

                            2x 6Pin turns into 1x 8 Pin
                            2x Molex turns into 1x 6 Pin
                            I trust consumer reviews a lot more than review sites.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              That is quite possibly, no, scratch that .. its definitely the ugliest box art/card grafix that I have ever witnessed.
                              Oh if a man tried to take his time on Earth and prove before he died what one man's life could be worth, well I wonder what would happen to this world ? - Harry Chapin

                              Comment

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