Too Soon?

[Rand{CLR}]

Is it too soon to discuss maps?

I don't recommend Siege of Shanghai as one of the initial rotation maps. It's pretty easy to see how it's going to play out: helicopter rush for the highest rooftops, drop a couple squads on the roofs, snipers go wild from above, other squad members parachute in. The level design isn't particularly intelligent, and it will be very easy for everyone to lose flags behind their lines. Entire squads could spend the full round simply walking between "their" two flags and keep re-capping them from the enemy. DICE may argue that this is more dynamic but to me it seems more tedious, that we aren't really making any kind of real progress. It's like Seine gone wild with much less effective armor and zero choke points.

People are playing around with different things since it's the beta, but I'd bet money this is how this map will "normalize" when the game is live. Probably by the end of next week even. It's already started.

This map is quite different from Gulf of Oman, which remained fun from beta to end of life.

-Rand

[Cain]

[juneau]

This already? At this rate you'll all be saying you're bored by every map before the end of the year, and playing other games.

[trip202]

When is Battlefield 5 coming out?

[juneau]

When is Battlefield 5 coming out?

Not soon enough for some people lol.

[goldenfooler]

I think it can be fun. Though it will be played out since it is a start map. While there are sniping crews up there, I have been part of crews that have wiped them out.
If they just make those transport heli's guns more effective they won't last long. Plus with a good commander and you just drop a tomahawk on their ass.
Splash damage with the attack heli would also be a bonus.
If you notice on the tallest building they added in a rim that you can't see over unless you stand on top. When you are on shooting you are very very open for anyone to shoot.

[Apache Warrior]

Is it too soon to discuss maps?

I don't recommend Siege of Shanghai as one of the initial rotation maps. It's pretty easy to see how it's going to play out: helicopter rush for the highest rooftops, drop a couple squads on the roofs, snipers go wild from above, other squad members parachute in. The level design isn't particularly intelligent, and it will be very easy for everyone to lose flags behind their lines. Entire squads could spend the full round simply walking between "their" two flags and keep re-capping them from the enemy. DICE may argue that this is more dynamic but to me it seems more tedious, that we aren't really making any kind of real progress. It's like Seine gone wild with much less effective armor and zero choke points.

People are playing around with different things since it's the beta, but I'd bet money this is how this map will "normalize" when the game is live. Probably by the end of next week even. It's already started.

This map is quite different from Gulf of Oman, which remained fun from beta to end of life.

-Rand

This already happens. Last night the squad I was in was doing this from the round Radio Tower. I did manage to shoot down the Transport Chopper with one RPG. He tried to sneak up on the tower from below. When he porpoised up I was right there. I put one into the bottom and he blew up killing everyone that was preparing to jump onto the roof. The 7.1 Surround Sound works great in BF4. The other team won handily because most of our team was sniping.
Apache

[{CLR} Cobalt]

For someone who spends most of their time hiding in armor, what does it matter what the map is like. Snipers cant kill you in armor. And the tanks are finally vulberable enough to where you can at least take them on with 2-3 infantry Not so much in BF3. And dont get me started on the Javelins not killin tanks in BF3. Javelins are one shot one kill on tanks IRL. But not in this game. The map is fine. How many hours did you log in BF3? How long did you even play it.

[Tuqui-tuqui]

- Snipers wont be an issue once Support players figure out how to use their grenade launcher. It is actually very easy to use and it is nicely balanced.

- Good recons will spot choppers (and tanks) and Engies will take them down. This is going to be the go-to combo in any vehicle-based map. I encourage everyone to try this combo and get used to it BEFORE beta ends.

- Tanks are being relegated to support machines due to their low health and limited ammo supply. This is a good thing, in my opinion, since no tank should be an unstoppable killing machine.

Eventually everything I posted will change. Nerfs and updates will throw balance in one direction and then another. But for now it's in a good spot. We just need the optimized version of the client and we are good to go.

[goldenfooler]

I just think they should get rid of the lock on RPG.

[Rand{CLR}]

For someone who spends most of their time hiding in armor, what does it matter what the map is like. Snipers cant kill you in armor. And the tanks are finally vulberable enough to where you can at least take them on with 2-3 infantry Not so much in BF3. And dont get me started on the Javelins not killin tanks in BF3. Javelins are one shot one kill on tanks IRL. But not in this game. The map is fine. How many hours did you log in BF3? How long did you even play it.

Gee, someone has panties all bunched up someplace. I played 79 hours, 58 minutes of BF3. 21 hours, 43 minutes of that time in armor. Not really most now, is it? Why does this matter anyway? Besides, BF4 is a different game.

I got BORED with BF3 and I didn't like it anywhere near as much as BF 2, where I probably put in 3-4 times that amount of playtime. I don't play ANY game as much as your 1100 hours in BF3. Some of us have things to do. I put more time in UT2k4 and BF2 than any other online game and I don't think I hit 400 hours in either. I have just over 200 hours in the biggest single-player game I've ever played, Skyrim. I prefer to do other things and play other games.

Regarding armor, it depends on the game. I stayed out of tanks for most of UT3's run because it was too unbalancing if I was in a Goliath and the other side typically wouldn't have much chance--that's an example of over-powered armor. If tanks stay the way they are now in BF4 there is a pretty good chance I'll stay out of them much of the time because they'll be far and away the worst tanks in any online game I've ever played with the possible exception of COD: World at War's tanks. When I use armor I'm actively going after the biggest threats on the map, that is what is fun to me: killing the biggest, baddest guy on the other side to help my team. Usually that means taking down the other guy's tanks.

If folks don't like this? Oh well.

-Rand

[Rand{CLR}]

- Snipers wont be an issue once Support players figure out how to use their grenade launcher. It is actually very easy to use and it is nicely balanced.

- Good recons will spot choppers (and tanks) and Engies will take them down. This is going to be the go-to combo in any vehicle-based map. I encourage everyone to try this combo and get used to it BEFORE beta ends.

- Tanks are being relegated to support machines due to their low health and limited ammo supply. This is a good thing, in my opinion, since no tank should be an unstoppable killing machine.

Eventually everything I posted will change. Nerfs and updates will throw balance in one direction and then another. But for now it's in a good spot. We just need the optimized version of the client and we are good to go.

On your first point it was pretty funny to me last night. I was using that support airburst thingy and got a guy like 3 times with it, and he global chatted something like "look out for Rand, he loves his noob tube." I lol'ed.

Tanks and infantry should have a symbiotic relationship. As a tanker the ideal is that you should rely on infantry to clear out dangerous infantry but you should be able to take on enemy armor and at least have some confidence you'll kill it. I don't have that in this game, not with how the tanks are currently balanced. I'm not really sure APCs are quite there either. They're slightly better on anti-infantry because they have a few more shells and they're explosive, but they don't seem to have good anti-armor abilities either yet.

I fully agree that tanks shouldn't be unstoppable killing machines, but they also shouldn't be paper tigers. There's a balance. BF2 hit it pretty damn well, as did ONS in UT2k4. Armor was dangerous, and the danger scaled with the skill of the user, but it also wasn't unstoppable. DICE is pretty far from this balance today. Hopefully they'll get closer by the end of the month.

-Rand

[goldenfooler]

Gee, someone has panties all bunched up someplace. I played 79 hours, 58 minutes of BF3. 21 hours, 43 minutes of that time in armor. Not really most now, is it? Why does this matter anyway? Besides, BF4 is a different game.

I got BORED with BF3 and I didn't like it anywhere near as much as BF 2, where I probably put in 3-4 times that amount of playtime. I don't play ANY game as much as your 1100 hours in BF3. Some of us have things to do. I put more time in UT2k4 and BF2 than any other online game and I don't think I hit 400 hours in either. I have just over 200 hours in the biggest single-player game I've ever played, Skyrim. I prefer to do other things and play other games.

Regarding armor, it depends on the game. I stayed out of tanks for most of UT3's run because it was too unbalancing if I was in a Goliath and the other side typically wouldn't have much chance--that's an example of over-powered armor. If tanks stay the way they are now in BF4 there is a pretty good chance I'll stay out of them much of the time because they'll be far and away the worst tanks in any online game I've ever played with the possible exception of COD: World at War's tanks. When I use armor I'm actively going after the biggest threats on the map, that is what is fun to me: killing the biggest, baddest guy on the other side to help my team. Usually that means taking down the other guy's tanks.

If folks don't like this? Oh well.

-Rand

personally I love going after people in tanks when I am on foot. Its great to take them down. I remember some awesome battles in 2142 with the motion mines and the almost sniper anti-tank gun.