How many snipers??

[Schultzy]

I suppose I'll have to go elsewhere till I get my Sniper plat's then.

Starting a round as a sniper, only to start getting killed off halfway through because someone else joins as a sniper and camps off in Egypt is kind of lame. Even moreso when I'm more capping flags than the guys with assault/med/eng.

[Brian is Huh?!{CLR}]

I suppose I'll have to go elsewhere till I get my Sniper plat's then.

Starting a round as a sniper, only to start getting killed off halfway through because someone else joins as a sniper and camps off in Egypt is kind of lame. Even moreso when I'm more capping flags than the guys with assault/med/eng.

try to get the sniper class during a new game. then stay as a recon.. get your plats.. *PROBLEM SOLVED*

[K PhaNTOM]

try to get the sniper class during a new game. then stay as a recon.. get your plats.. *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Not how it works. If you die and someone else chooses sniper while you are waiting to respawn you are out of luck.

[tigershilone]

Absolute BS!

So much for playing the game anyway you want to.

I'll run that class as an effective assault squad using the silenced auto with mag ammo or a shotgun, makes it usable for close combat and clearing ops. Of more importance is the motion mines. I use em left and right to clear a point or flag. Now I am denied using this tool because somebody else's opinion of how the game should have been designed instead of how it was published. Tha'ts Crap!

You may not like this class, but other people obviously do. Gives you something to bitch about, but it's still part of the overall experience. So much for overcoming a problem or situation through improvisation or better tactics--just take away the choice instead

We never ran class limits to avoid issues with BFROE (listed in EULA you agree to prior to installing game) and server ranking issues with EA. Might as well just put it up as a pistol and knife only server.

Fairness has always been the biggest concern I have online when gaming, I don't feel this is fair.

I'll generally play elsewhere if I know this limit is in effect on a server. That is too bad as I generally have had a good gaming experience at CLR.

Tiger_Shilone

[Furryappleseed]

Server andor Ea had some problems. Cant connect....

Off to sleep. Be back tomorrow though.

And the limit does seem to be for the greater good of gameplay. For every one person that says they use recon in a useful manner, there are more than 10 that will be completely useless.

[K PhaNTOM]

Might as well just put it up as a pistol and knife only server.

I'm definitely up for that!

[tigershilone]

I'm definitely up for that!

It was a facetious comment Phantom.

Running a K&P server is a good way to get your server pulled by EAas they are specifically not allowed in the RANKED server EULA when you rent a server from a provider. You can run anything you want on an unranked server, but anything done in there does not add to your stats in the EA master servers.

EA does periodic sweeps of K&P servers and players caught on them generally have their stats reset to 0. The older the game, the less they police it, but it happens.

Saw it happen more than once when adminning during BF2142.

Tiger_Shilone

[NateTheBrewer]

try to get the sniper class during a new game. then stay as a recon.. get your plats.. *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Not possible... If you die and someone else spawns sniper before you re-spawn, you end up spawning and being slayed.

Edit: Forgot to post my name, I play as [nycff]Nate

I have been coming on the server regularly for a few months now, but never registered on the forums until tonight, when I found out about the sniper limit. It seems like the strong feeling here is that the limit is a good thing, and I am relatively new here, but I wanted to give a few arguments for the opposing viewpoint. I am not trying to stir up trouble - I have admin'd servers before and I know it can be a difficult thing to please everyone whilst making everything run smoothly. You guys run a consistent, reliable, well admin'd server which I love playing on. Lately, it has been my default choice for playing BFBC2. The map rotation is a bit smaller than other servers, but every time I go to another one for variety, I get to play a few other maps I want to, while also having to play some downright horrible, unbalanced maps.

Reading through the thread, it seemed like the goal here was to prevent people from camping back, sniping, and not taking flags. You can keep them out of their base by auto-slaying for shooting from base, but they can still go to the edge of this 'killzone' or find some hiding spot somewhere else to set up camp. You wish to take their advantage - the sniper rifle - away from them.

When I admin'd a CS server, we tried limiting the AWP for the same reasons. People weren't performing the objectives. They decided to play the game like deathmatch. While the weapons physics of these 2 games are a bit different, in that the other weapons are a bit more balanced against the sniper weapons (vs. the AWP in CS), you are still run into the same fundamental problem:

You are taking what you deem to be an exploitable advantage, and instead of allowing everyone to use it, you are allowing a select few on either team to have it. This has a few problems:

1. You still cannot guarantee the 3 people on each team who are allowed to snipe will actually perform the objectives. You may, in fact, even reinforce the camping trend; they know they can identify and aim at targets further across the map than all but 3 players on the opposite team, they know if they die they may lose their precious ability to snipe, and some snipers just like to camp. (Even with the limitations tonight, there were still snipers camping in the no-mans land between our non-cap and first flag).

2. Even though BFBC2 does make it easier to take out snipers using other weaponry than games like CS do, there are still a few balance issues. For one, many of the maps you run are sized so that it is difficult to see, much less place your crosshairs on, a sniper at the opposite end of the map who is taking potshots at you (when only using a 4x scope). Also, all it takes them is one shot (not counting auto-snipers) when you may need 2-3 to bring them down. Lastly, it is just easier to spawn in as a sniper and take care of some camper. If I have been shot more than once by the same sniper who is across the map, I would much rather just respawn as recon with a GOL/SV98 and shoot the camper in the face. After my next death, I usually end up going back to whatever kit I was previously.

3. Not all snipers camp. It is the age old 'Punish everyone for a few people's transgressions'. I have already platted most of the good bolt-action snipers, so my favorite thing as of late is to use the VSS with its default scope and the lightweight kit (since I don't need the scope add-on). Pair this with C4 and I can take care of tanks too. I run around the map capping flags, and only occasionally need to use it to kill an annoying sniper at long range. I used to even do this with a 4x scope on the bolt action ones as well. In my opinion, camping as a sniper is the stupidest thing in the world - real world snipers fire and relocate, and they don't even have the annoying 'dead give-away' tracers that snipers in BFBC2 have.

4. You eliminate much of the 'fear and caution' of sniping. When I make the jump from running around as assault or engineer to sniping, I have to keep in mind a couple of things... When I am aiming that thing, I am sitting still and have tunnel vision. Not only that, but if I run into someone at close range, I need to either no-scope them, or pull out my pistol or knife. Lastly, and associated with the sitting still thing, I know there are other snipers out there who have been waiting for me to sit still and look through my scope. In other words, I better not stay in one place for too long, I better not be exposed 360 degrees around me, and I better not miss. The limit cuts much of this caution above, because now I know that there are only 3 other snipers out there. Better yet, if I just dropped one and am about to kill the other sniper that was camping with him, I know there is only 1 sniper left who could actually be aiming at me... A very secure though if I am sitting at the back of the map and other kits will be pretty limited as to their ability to kill me.

* Lastly, the kit limitation modules of admin mods for BFBC2 are horrible at the moment. They do not assess which kit you have until you have already chosen it and spawned, instead of preventing the player from selecting the kit when they are choosing one.

As I said above, I don't want to draw heat for this or be ostracized from the community. No matter what I will still play on your server, as I like the experience - people, hardware, etc. - and there are just too many bad servers out there. I just know that when we tried this way back when, it ended up being good admins prodding campers that helped the 'objectives get completed', and not mods that can go overboard and not handle the gray areas.

[Brian is Huh?!{CLR}]

Not how it works. If you die and someone else chooses sniper while you are waiting to respawn you are out of luck.

ahhh thats a weird one.. it should be like... first come first serve..

[SIR Rossy]

Not possible... If you die and someone else spawns sniper before you re-spawn, you end up spawning and being slayed.

Edit: Forgot to post my name, I play as [nycff]Nate

I have been coming on the server regularly for a few months now, but never registered on the forums until tonight, when I found out about the sniper limit. It seems like the strong feeling here is that the limit is a good thing, and I am relatively new here, but I wanted to give a few arguments for the opposing viewpoint. I am not trying to stir up trouble - I have admin'd servers before and I know it can be a difficult thing to please everyone whilst making everything run smoothly. You guys run a consistent, reliable, well admin'd server which I love playing on. Lately, it has been my default choice for playing BFBC2. The map rotation is a bit smaller than other servers, but every time I go to another one for variety, I get to play a few other maps I want to, while also having to play some downright horrible, unbalanced maps.

Reading through the thread, it seemed like the goal here was to prevent people from camping back, sniping, and not taking flags. You can keep them out of their base by auto-slaying for shooting from base, but they can still go to the edge of this 'killzone' or find some hiding spot somewhere else to set up camp. You wish to take their advantage - the sniper rifle - away from them.

When I admin'd a CS server, we tried limiting the AWP for the same reasons. People weren't performing the objectives. They decided to play the game like deathmatch. While the weapons physics of these 2 games are a bit different, in that the other weapons are a bit more balanced against the sniper weapons (vs. the AWP in CS), you are still run into the same fundamental problem:

You are taking what you deem to be an exploitable advantage, and instead of allowing everyone to use it, you are allowing a select few on either team to have it. This has a few problems:

1. You still cannot guarantee the 3 people on each team who are allowed to snipe will actually perform the objectives. You may, in fact, even reinforce the camping trend; they know they can identify and aim at targets further across the map than all but 3 players on the opposite team, they know if they die they may lose their precious ability to snipe, and some snipers just like to camp. (Even with the limitations tonight, there were still snipers camping in the no-mans land between our non-cap and first flag).

2. Even though BFBC2 does make it easier to take out snipers using other weaponry than games like CS do, there are still a few balance issues. For one, many of the maps you run are sized so that it is difficult to see, much less place your crosshairs on, a sniper at the opposite end of the map who is taking potshots at you (when only using a 4x scope). Also, all it takes them is one shot (not counting auto-snipers) when you may need 2-3 to bring them down. Lastly, it is just easier to spawn in as a sniper and take care of some camper. If I have been shot more than once by the same sniper who is across the map, I would much rather just respawn as recon with a GOL/SV98 and shoot the camper in the face. After my next death, I usually end up going back to whatever kit I was previously.

3. Not all snipers camp. It is the age old 'Punish everyone for a few people's transgressions'. I have already platted most of the good bolt-action snipers, so my favorite thing as of late is to use the VSS with its default scope and the lightweight kit (since I don't need the scope add-on). Pair this with C4 and I can take care of tanks too. I run around the map capping flags, and only occasionally need to use it to kill an annoying sniper at long range. I used to even do this with a 4x scope on the bolt action ones as well. In my opinion, camping as a sniper is the stupidest thing in the world - real world snipers fire and relocate, and they don't even have the annoying 'dead give-away' tracers that snipers in BFBC2 have.

4. You eliminate much of the 'fear and caution' of sniping. When I make the jump from running around as assault or engineer to sniping, I have to keep in mind a couple of things... When I am aiming that thing, I am sitting still and have tunnel vision. Not only that, but if I run into someone at close range, I need to either no-scope them, or pull out my pistol or knife. Lastly, and associated with the sitting still thing, I know there are other snipers out there who have been waiting for me to sit still and look through my scope. In other words, I better not stay in one place for too long, I better not be exposed 360 degrees around me, and I better not miss. The limit cuts much of this caution above, because now I know that there are only 3 other snipers out there. Better yet, if I just dropped one and am about to kill the other sniper that was camping with him, I know there is only 1 sniper left who could actually be aiming at me... A very secure though if I am sitting at the back of the map and other kits will be pretty limited as to their ability to kill me.

* Lastly, the kit limitation modules of admin mods for BFBC2 are horrible at the moment. They do not assess which kit you have until you have already chosen it and spawned, instead of preventing the player from selecting the kit when they are choosing one.

As I said above, I don't want to draw heat for this or be ostracized from the community. No matter what I will still play on your server, as I like the experience - people, hardware, etc. - and there are just too many bad servers out there. I just know that when we tried this way back when, it ended up being good admins prodding campers that helped the 'objectives get completed', and not mods that can go overboard and not handle the gray areas.

THis is pretty much what i was trying to say in another thread.. oh and welcome to the Lair

[BadHabitz]

I'd rather limit snipers than have to 'prod campers' as an admin.

Nothing makes me want to throw my computer out the window more than seeing half of my team playing the recon class while we have zero flags. That or seeing 5-6 or more snipers all hanging out in the same area scoping the whole map.

It also makes my blood boil when I'm running and jumping, knifing and shooting; doing all I can; pushing myself as hard as I can to take a flag, when I suddenly get one-shot-killed by a guy who is scoping around with one hand on the mouse and feeding his face with the other.

I might feel bad for a second or two when people can't use motion mines as much as they might like. But overall the only thing that makes me sad in this whole issue is that we couldn't set the number to zero.

[Brian is Huh?!{CLR}]

Absolute BS!

So much for playing the game anyway you want to.

I'll run that class as an effective assault squad using the silenced auto with mag ammo or a shotgun, makes it usable for close combat and clearing ops. Of more importance is the motion mines. I use em left and right to clear a point or flag. Now I am denied using this tool because somebody else's opinion of how the game should have been designed instead of how it was published. Tha'ts Crap!

You may not like this class, but other people obviously do. Gives you something to bitch about, but it's still part of the overall experience. So much for overcoming a problem or situation through improvisation or better tactics--just take away the choice instead

We never ran class limits to avoid issues with BFROE (listed in EULA you agree to prior to installing game) and server ranking issues with EA. Might as well just put it up as a pistol and knife only server.

Fairness has always been the biggest concern I have online when gaming, I don't feel this is fair.

I'll generally play elsewhere if I know this limit is in effect on a server. That is too bad as I generally have had a good gaming experience at CLR.

Tiger_Shilone

in the BF RoE, it states that we can LIMIT things. Cobalt has posted it in another thread.. we arent going AGAINST it. we are still letting players pick recon just *LIMITED*

[Cain]

Not possible... If you die and someone else spawns sniper before you re-spawn, you end up spawning and being slayed.

Edit: Forgot to post my name, I play as [nycff]Nate

I have been coming on the server regularly for a few months now, but never registered on the forums until tonight, when I found out about the sniper limit. It seems like the strong feeling here is that the limit is a good thing, and I am relatively new here, but I wanted to give a few arguments for the opposing viewpoint. I am not trying to stir up trouble - I have admin'd servers before and I know it can be a difficult thing to please everyone whilst making everything run smoothly. You guys run a consistent, reliable, well admin'd server which I love playing on. Lately, it has been my default choice for playing BFBC2. The map rotation is a bit smaller than other servers, but every time I go to another one for variety, I get to play a few other maps I want to, while also having to play some downright horrible, unbalanced maps.

Reading through the thread, it seemed like the goal here was to prevent people from camping back, sniping, and not taking flags. You can keep them out of their base by auto-slaying for shooting from base, but they can still go to the edge of this 'killzone' or find some hiding spot somewhere else to set up camp. You wish to take their advantage - the sniper rifle - away from them.

When I admin'd a CS server, we tried limiting the AWP for the same reasons. People weren't performing the objectives. They decided to play the game like deathmatch. While the weapons physics of these 2 games are a bit different, in that the other weapons are a bit more balanced against the sniper weapons (vs. the AWP in CS), you are still run into the same fundamental problem:

You are taking what you deem to be an exploitable advantage, and instead of allowing everyone to use it, you are allowing a select few on either team to have it. This has a few problems:

1. You still cannot guarantee the 3 people on each team who are allowed to snipe will actually perform the objectives. You may, in fact, even reinforce the camping trend; they know they can identify and aim at targets further across the map than all but 3 players on the opposite team, they know if they die they may lose their precious ability to snipe, and some snipers just like to camp. (Even with the limitations tonight, there were still snipers camping in the no-mans land between our non-cap and first flag).

2. Even though BFBC2 does make it easier to take out snipers using other weaponry than games like CS do, there are still a few balance issues. For one, many of the maps you run are sized so that it is difficult to see, much less place your crosshairs on, a sniper at the opposite end of the map who is taking potshots at you (when only using a 4x scope). Also, all it takes them is one shot (not counting auto-snipers) when you may need 2-3 to bring them down. Lastly, it is just easier to spawn in as a sniper and take care of some camper. If I have been shot more than once by the same sniper who is across the map, I would much rather just respawn as recon with a GOL/SV98 and shoot the camper in the face. After my next death, I usually end up going back to whatever kit I was previously.

3. Not all snipers camp. It is the age old 'Punish everyone for a few people's transgressions'. I have already platted most of the good bolt-action snipers, so my favorite thing as of late is to use the VSS with its default scope and the lightweight kit (since I don't need the scope add-on). Pair this with C4 and I can take care of tanks too. I run around the map capping flags, and only occasionally need to use it to kill an annoying sniper at long range. I used to even do this with a 4x scope on the bolt action ones as well. In my opinion, camping as a sniper is the stupidest thing in the world - real world snipers fire and relocate, and they don't even have the annoying 'dead give-away' tracers that snipers in BFBC2 have.

4. You eliminate much of the 'fear and caution' of sniping. When I make the jump from running around as assault or engineer to sniping, I have to keep in mind a couple of things... When I am aiming that thing, I am sitting still and have tunnel vision. Not only that, but if I run into someone at close range, I need to either no-scope them, or pull out my pistol or knife. Lastly, and associated with the sitting still thing, I know there are other snipers out there who have been waiting for me to sit still and look through my scope. In other words, I better not stay in one place for too long, I better not be exposed 360 degrees around me, and I better not miss. The limit cuts much of this caution above, because now I know that there are only 3 other snipers out there. Better yet, if I just dropped one and am about to kill the other sniper that was camping with him, I know there is only 1 sniper left who could actually be aiming at me... A very secure though if I am sitting at the back of the map and other kits will be pretty limited as to their ability to kill me.

* Lastly, the kit limitation modules of admin mods for BFBC2 are horrible at the moment. They do not assess which kit you have until you have already chosen it and spawned, instead of preventing the player from selecting the kit when they are choosing one.

As I said above, I don't want to draw heat for this or be ostracized from the community. No matter what I will still play on your server, as I like the experience - people, hardware, etc. - and there are just too many bad servers out there. I just know that when we tried this way back when, it ended up being good admins prodding campers that helped the 'objectives get completed', and not mods that can go overboard and not handle the gray areas.

Thank you, for taking the time to register for our Forums and make a thoughtful post.

Based not only on the overwhelming feedback I have gotten but also the really poor implementation of recon limits, I am turning this plugin OFF.

I had hoped/assumed that once you grabbed Recon you would be set and the plugin would simply not allow others to join the recon class, like the limits we had in DoD.

Apparently this plugin does not work this way at all and punishes recon players who are more aggressive and goal oriented, who die more frequently.

I switched it off and will continue to research the issue.

[Cain]

Not how it works. If you die and someone else chooses sniper while you are waiting to respawn you are out of luck.

THAT is a REAL problem...

[Apache Warrior]

I still died more from sniper, last night, than from any other class.
Apache