Rooftops....Yea or Nay

[CarbonFire]

So Rand brought up in another thread his distaste for fighting on rooftops, and I thought it'd be good to get both the community's as well as the official Cain's Lair thoughts on the subject.

For a little bit of background, here is a posting by one of the main DICE guys posted on another forum:

CKMC]
Really this is not an exploit by technical terms.

Two questions I ask myself are:
Does it break the level and give one side a distinct advantage that the other can not match or counter?

Is it fun?

I have not tried this one yet but I have a feeling that the answers are "no" and "yes" respectively.

Interesting bit of information - I have noticed that alot of people like playing Berlin on 64 players. I have tried it and found it great fun. I spoke with the level designer and he was horrified at first since the map was not intended to be played with that many.

When he saw that it was popular and a lot of fun he became happy and said (loosely) "well if its fun then great.......didnt think they would like that".

So - we have found we need to keep an open mind because you guys will do things we dont expect and a lot of time its a lot of fun.

The main thing is fun. If you guys find something going on in your server that you and your friends do not find fun then use your powers to create the environment you want. But we dont want to make official policy or hard code settings when we dont have to as it limits the variety open to you guys as players.

Personally I think rooftops should be fair game. Mostly because its something anyone in a squad with a beacon or a drone can do - so no one gets an overwhelming advantage that you can't counter. Plus...rifle rockets make really good "roof cleaners" so people on roofs are never completely safe

Your thoughts?

[Premonition]

ummm. question i have to ask is did i miss the dice guy talking about rooftops?

But

Personally I think rooftops should be fair game.

Why would you say fair game?
Ill use bf2 as a ex. on strike people would get on the warehouse but the mec side could not get on the gas station roof.

So while one side can attack from the main base the other team cant so this gives a distinct advantage to stealing vehicles.

The big question is how do you get to the roof tops and why would you get on them since you cant capture any silos while up there?

correct me if im wrong.

IN special forces players where ment to get on roofs thats why they had grapple hooks and zip lines.

[CarbonFire]

AFAIK there are no roofs that can't be reached by one side or the other. The same tactics work on all roofs for all players.

I should have clarified this as mainly a Conquest/City Map poll....getting on rooftops in Titan mode is trivial

AS for that quote, it was in response to a thread on another forum concerning rooftops and Fall of Berlin - I can't find the original thread now (its either been removed or put into an area I can't access). [DICE]CKMC went on to say that unless being on rooftops makes you invulnerable (like the Hotel bug on Jalalabad in BF2), DICE doesn't have a problem with it. But its a house rule thing really, so thats why I wanted to get everyone's opinion on the subject so there are no misunderstandings.

[FreeLance_FoX]

I agree it's legal but OMG I cannot STAND it when people do nothing but camp rooftops. This morning in CQ there were two enemy squads who did nothing but camp rooftops and they beat the crap out of me man. If only my Squad Leaders would do that.

[Thrashdragon]

I was in a squad with a roof beacon on Berlin today for the first time. We had a couple of minutes of fun, then were very effectively suppressed with rockets and sniper rifles. Since its easy to counter, I don't consider it an exploit. I doubt I'll do it again since it's honestly a lot more fun to be on the ground, plus in order to shoot from way up there you have to skyline yourself and are an instant target...I've been on the other end plenty of times and picked many a shooter off of the roof. It was a mildly entertaining but ultimately useless position to be in.

[Premonition]

AFAIK there are no roofs that can't be reached by one side or the other. The same tactics work on all roofs for all players.

But the question is how do you get on the roofs? For some reason i dont think your walking up steps. How does the team leader get a beacon on the roof?
Keep in mind i havent played 2142 since demo, so im more just rting to understand what your talking about

[Jeffro]

ok you put a beacon next to a building and you wind up spawning down onto a roof... personallly i think its fair. think about it this way... is war fair? why can't the opposite team just fight their way through and get to the rooftops also? personally i get agravated with the complaining about "war" and i do not believe its an exploit. if its jumping through walls or something like that then yeah thats not fair at all. lets ask a hypothetical question.... if this was really real life war and you "spawned on a rooftop" what would you do? "i think ill get down and make myself more visible so i can die" it is military fact that the higher ground always has the advantage... so the enemy needs to fight their way up and be men about it there is my two cents

[KINGoFOOLS]

I think it is very annoying. This happened on two maps that I played Berlin and Belgrade. A squad was right over the 1st base on Berlin...from there they can see all of the spawns and were throwing everything off the roof but the kitchen sink... Rockets, nades, rdx, apm's etc.. With a couple of supply people up there it got annoying quick.

[Apache Warrior]

...I've been on the other end plenty of times and picked many a shooter off of the roof. It was a mildly entertaining but ultimately useless position to be in.

I love using my Zeller to take out the roofers.
Apache

[LIMEY]

...I've been on the other end plenty of times and picked many a shooter off of the roof. It was a mildly entertaining but ultimately useless position to be in.

I love using my Zeller to take out the roofers.
Apache

+1

[Nihilis[v]]

A smart commander will arty the roof killing multiple opponents AND destroying their beacon. Even if he doesn't destroy the beacon it can become an area to rack up some easy points via artillery.

[FreeLance_FoX]

The squads this morning didn't even have a beacon. Their Squad Leaders used the drone EMP trick with very good results. I think we should outlaw that one but allow beacon drops.

[thedeadlyassassin]

I have no clue what you guys are talking about lol. Maybe Conquest mode?

[CarbonFire]

The squads this morning didn't even have a beacon. Their Squad Leaders used the drone EMP trick with very good results. I think we should outlaw that one but allow beacon drops.

Its pretty hard to outlaw one and allow the other, as you have to catch them in the act to prove they are doing it. Plus the drone EMP trick is pretty funny to watch, so I say leave it in

The problem is you can't leave a grey area - either you CAN be on roofs or you CAN'T. How you get there is up to your creativity. Its like Titan moving. You can't reasonably say "only move the Titan to the first Silo" because opening it up to any movement means someone is going to move it as far as possible. Of course, unlike Titan mode, being on the roof doesn't lag the entire server

[Perro]

I have to say 2 things.

Just the glitch of a beacon can get you on a roof top, so no one without a squad can go up there and kill you, this give you a advantage of the enemy since they cant stop the spawn and they cant kill you. so its glitching and ilegal in TWL, CAL and CPL.

This provide you any advantage thats why you do it, and i know you do it i kill you severals times. If EA or DICE dont like this why when you put a beacon down of a roof you cant spanw, because you are not supose to be there, only a lucky guy can get up top of the roofs so. If you need a commander to kill a beacon up top of the roof isnt fair because if the commander dont want to kill you he will not do it so.

I send multiples msg to cain to restric this as SPANW RAPE and he dont say nothing, but if enough ppl complain he will do something. Just tell me if you want to get kill everytime in your spanw and i will start doing that in fall of berling, a map with only 1 route, only 1 way to get any flag, so isnt fair for the PAC.

I dont think this will hurt us as this can hurt you, i can say if i get kill another time with a guy who use a glitch from the game i will take a SS and report to BFROE.COM thats all, isnt going to be anymore with cain. if you dont have a APC, GUNSHIP or CHOPPER to easy get rid of that beacon you cant use that glitch in the game to spanw all the time you have.