OK, recently I got a couple of messages from people complaining about spawn raping so I thought I would post a topic here in order to discuss it, express our opinions and hopefully get the authoritative word from our tireless admins about what does and does not constitute spawn raping.
Let me begin by saying I will always do my best to follow our rules and encourage others to do the same. That being said, in order to follow the rules, we need to know exactly what they are which, I suppose, is the purpose of this post.
IMO, spawn raping has typically consisted of hanging out in the enemy uncappable base and laying in ambush waiting for enemies to spawn so that you can get easy kills on them as they spawn. This typically (but not exclusively) consists of using a sniper rifle from a concealed position or other typical cover or sneaking up on the enemy commander and shoving a knife into his belly (if the commander is smart, he'll stay on the Titan behind his shield). This is something I would wholeheartedly agree is cheap and something to be discouraged (read: prohibited).
What I have heard is that we prohibit spawn raping and we are only supposed to enter the enemies uncappable bases for purposes of destroying "assets". In conquest mode this is very simple since the only assets present are the static points which provide for UAV, EMP, Satellite and Orbital Bombardment support.
In Titan Mode however, the Titan Turrets are effectively a tactical replacement for the Orbital Bombardment available in Conquest Mode which is, I suppose, why there is no Orbital Bombardment available to Titan commanders. I realize we also prohibit moving the Titans (a shame since they would otherwise provide an additional and interesting tactical component to the game) since the lag this introduces is such a problem. Still, in a number of the titan maps the guns (especially the forward guns) of an unmoved Titan are still within range or nearly in range of a cappable silo and therefore can be useful to the enemy for providing supressing fire. Needless to say anything useful to the enemy is bad for our side.
Things get more complicated after the enemy Titan Shields are dropped since boarding the enemy Titan quickly and in force becomes critical to destroying the titan quickly. Depending on the competency, effectiveness and number of enemy gunners this can be best done with air transport vehicles or with APCs. Usually, it is best to pursue both methods as vigorously as possible. Once the enemy titan shields are down it becomes critical to maintain a ground presence in the vicinity of the enemy titan in order to protect our APCs, supress the Titan Turrets and control the AA gun that is usually present and would otherwise be used to shoot down our transport choppers as they attempt to board the enemy Titan. Again, since we do not move the Titans, this usually means being in an enemy uncappable spawn point.
This bring up a number of questions that I think we should make an effort to answer in order to be clear about what the rules are regarding enemy uncappable spawn points.
1. Are we going to consider enemy Titan Turrets to be legitemate targets? If so, shouldn't we be allowed to destroy them in any way we can? Obviously, IMO we should allow use of the nearest AA gun for this pourpose as well as the other available methods (handheld AT guns, Attack Choppers, Tanks, etc.)
2. If you are in an AA gun trying to destroy the Titan Turrets, it makes sense to try to protect yourself while you are there. Placing AT & AP mines in the area for this purpose should be considered legitemate self-defense. For that matter what about having a squaddie (or two, or three) watching your back while you are bringing the Titan Turrets down? Again feel free to express your opinions on this either for or against.
3. After or shortly before the enemy Titan Shields are dropped does it not make sense to attempt to have APCs in the area (either your own or captured enemy APCs) in order to allow your team to quickly board the enemy Titan in force?
4. Once the Titan Shields are down, should it not be considered legitemate to have as many APCs in the area as possible to facilitate a continued push on the enemy Titan? If so, protecting these APCs from enemy ground fire as well as the Titan Turrets is critical. As is keeping them repaired and supressing the enemy's ability to destroy them. No doubt the enemy will be trying as hard as possible to capture or destroy your APCs so you'd better be trying to protect and/or recapture them or they won't last very long.
5. When defending your Titan it can be very effective to fly your attack chopper around the back of your Titan and rake the decks with rocket and gatling fire to make it as difficult as possible for the enemy to board and to destroy any transport choppers that have landed or are trying to land. Also, to prevent this the enemy may try to board the titan at the topmost deck first so that they can use AT mines to suppress the choppers as they take off. This is also, another good reason for there to be a battle over control of the ever-present ground-based AA turret in order to supress the enemy attack chopper's ability to defend their Titan. Also, a team that does not defend the top of their own Titan during an assault is giving up a huge tactical advantage to the enemy by allowing them to mine their launch bay and giving them easier access to the outside of their Titan.
6. Is it legitemate to enter an enemy uncappable base for puposes of stealing their vehicles? I have seen this happen many times and while it is annoying as heck it seems to me that it could be considered a legitemate tactic.
Obviously, there are a lot of reasons besides simply getting cheap kills for being in an enemy's uncappable base. We ultimately need to decide if any or all of them are legitimate or not and what exactly we mean when we say "no spawn raping".
I look forward to reading your opinions...
-AlexanderYork
P.S. I decided to post a poll on this topic, feel free to respond
Let me begin by saying I will always do my best to follow our rules and encourage others to do the same. That being said, in order to follow the rules, we need to know exactly what they are which, I suppose, is the purpose of this post.
IMO, spawn raping has typically consisted of hanging out in the enemy uncappable base and laying in ambush waiting for enemies to spawn so that you can get easy kills on them as they spawn. This typically (but not exclusively) consists of using a sniper rifle from a concealed position or other typical cover or sneaking up on the enemy commander and shoving a knife into his belly (if the commander is smart, he'll stay on the Titan behind his shield). This is something I would wholeheartedly agree is cheap and something to be discouraged (read: prohibited).
What I have heard is that we prohibit spawn raping and we are only supposed to enter the enemies uncappable bases for purposes of destroying "assets". In conquest mode this is very simple since the only assets present are the static points which provide for UAV, EMP, Satellite and Orbital Bombardment support.
In Titan Mode however, the Titan Turrets are effectively a tactical replacement for the Orbital Bombardment available in Conquest Mode which is, I suppose, why there is no Orbital Bombardment available to Titan commanders. I realize we also prohibit moving the Titans (a shame since they would otherwise provide an additional and interesting tactical component to the game) since the lag this introduces is such a problem. Still, in a number of the titan maps the guns (especially the forward guns) of an unmoved Titan are still within range or nearly in range of a cappable silo and therefore can be useful to the enemy for providing supressing fire. Needless to say anything useful to the enemy is bad for our side.
Things get more complicated after the enemy Titan Shields are dropped since boarding the enemy Titan quickly and in force becomes critical to destroying the titan quickly. Depending on the competency, effectiveness and number of enemy gunners this can be best done with air transport vehicles or with APCs. Usually, it is best to pursue both methods as vigorously as possible. Once the enemy titan shields are down it becomes critical to maintain a ground presence in the vicinity of the enemy titan in order to protect our APCs, supress the Titan Turrets and control the AA gun that is usually present and would otherwise be used to shoot down our transport choppers as they attempt to board the enemy Titan. Again, since we do not move the Titans, this usually means being in an enemy uncappable spawn point.
This bring up a number of questions that I think we should make an effort to answer in order to be clear about what the rules are regarding enemy uncappable spawn points.
1. Are we going to consider enemy Titan Turrets to be legitemate targets? If so, shouldn't we be allowed to destroy them in any way we can? Obviously, IMO we should allow use of the nearest AA gun for this pourpose as well as the other available methods (handheld AT guns, Attack Choppers, Tanks, etc.)
2. If you are in an AA gun trying to destroy the Titan Turrets, it makes sense to try to protect yourself while you are there. Placing AT & AP mines in the area for this purpose should be considered legitemate self-defense. For that matter what about having a squaddie (or two, or three) watching your back while you are bringing the Titan Turrets down? Again feel free to express your opinions on this either for or against.
3. After or shortly before the enemy Titan Shields are dropped does it not make sense to attempt to have APCs in the area (either your own or captured enemy APCs) in order to allow your team to quickly board the enemy Titan in force?
4. Once the Titan Shields are down, should it not be considered legitemate to have as many APCs in the area as possible to facilitate a continued push on the enemy Titan? If so, protecting these APCs from enemy ground fire as well as the Titan Turrets is critical. As is keeping them repaired and supressing the enemy's ability to destroy them. No doubt the enemy will be trying as hard as possible to capture or destroy your APCs so you'd better be trying to protect and/or recapture them or they won't last very long.
5. When defending your Titan it can be very effective to fly your attack chopper around the back of your Titan and rake the decks with rocket and gatling fire to make it as difficult as possible for the enemy to board and to destroy any transport choppers that have landed or are trying to land. Also, to prevent this the enemy may try to board the titan at the topmost deck first so that they can use AT mines to suppress the choppers as they take off. This is also, another good reason for there to be a battle over control of the ever-present ground-based AA turret in order to supress the enemy attack chopper's ability to defend their Titan. Also, a team that does not defend the top of their own Titan during an assault is giving up a huge tactical advantage to the enemy by allowing them to mine their launch bay and giving them easier access to the outside of their Titan.
6. Is it legitemate to enter an enemy uncappable base for puposes of stealing their vehicles? I have seen this happen many times and while it is annoying as heck it seems to me that it could be considered a legitemate tactic.
Obviously, there are a lot of reasons besides simply getting cheap kills for being in an enemy's uncappable base. We ultimately need to decide if any or all of them are legitimate or not and what exactly we mean when we say "no spawn raping".
I look forward to reading your opinions...
-AlexanderYork
P.S. I decided to post a poll on this topic, feel free to respond
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